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I wish Seattle took the possibility of vehicle-ramming attacks more seriously. This was Pike Place on USA v. Belgium match day. Where are the bollards? (lemmy.zip)
submitted 5 days ago by Zaelaa@lemmy.zip to c/fuckcars@lemmy.world
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[-] neuracnu 24 points 5 days ago

Seattle resident here.

The roadway in front of Pike Place Market has been historically open to vehicle traffic until very recently (within the last year) when the city finally decided to attempt a pedestrian-only pilot program. That’s what you’re seeing here.

The biggest opponents to making this street permanently pedestrian-only are the market vendors themselves who rely on street access for deliveries, though those can be accommodated during off hours.

Both the locals and tourists adore the car-free market, so my money is on Mayor Wilson having the political will to make it permanent. Those retractable bollards are expensive, but I think everyone has the vision of how it could work now.

[-] lost_faith@lemmy.ca 4 points 5 days ago

We have a pedestrian mall like this, have for decades. There are times when delivery vehicles are allowed to access, there are bollards that staff (of the mall) lower and raise (this is new in last decade or so)

[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 5 days ago

Is this kind of terrorism a thing in the US at all?

I would guess guns to be so easily available over there, that terrorists won't consider kinetic car attacks because semi-automatic guns are just so much more efficient.

Besides that: area in the picture looks surprisingly walkable, even without the closed street!

[-] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 27 points 5 days ago

Setting aside terrorism, it just takes a confused septuagenarian in a car.

[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 5 days ago

That's actually probably a more valid concern than a deliberate attack.

The few lonely traffic cones don't quite look solidly reassuring...

And other than the significant measures you would have to take as protection against a possible malign attack, measures protecting against random drive-in accidents would be cheap and easy. Just put some additional mobile plant tubs at the entry of the area.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Or just somebody having a medical crisis in a car. I know one person who presumably fainted while driving and woke up in a hospital with severe injuries from hitting a traffic light pole.

[-] JayleneSlide@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

Where I live now and most places I've lived, this is the really scary part of being a vulnerable road user in most of the United States.

But Pike Place Market... between the cobbles, the high density, and the street convolutions to get to the pictured location, vehicular attack by senescence or willful malice would present a serious challenge. There are much softer targets and way "better" areas for confusing elderly drivers.

[-] SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today 7 points 5 days ago
[-] SpikesOtherDog@ani.social 6 points 5 days ago

There have been a handful of these attacks in the past 40 years in the USA, and many more outside. The barriers are about $2000, but simple to move and deploy as needed.

My city is much smaller than Seattle, but we see them everywhere. My guess is they are police equipment and the city had excess funds to spend on those.

[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

The barriers are about $2000

That would be quite cheap. I guess this refers to simple concrete blocks blocking by pure mass?

Our community had to invest heavily in mobile blockers for our markets, especially the Christmas market (christmas markets have been a prime target for an increasing number of these kind of attacks here in Germany during the recent years).

They started with simple concrete blocks as a fast and short term affordable measure directly after the first christmas market attacks, but they aren't practical as soon as you have to set them up on a more frequent basis.

So by now they switched to easily deployable ones like those shown here: https://www.hoermann.de/portal/portal-48-lernen/de/hoermann-mobile-fahrzeugsperre-oktablock/

Price for single standard Blocker certified to be effective also against heavy transport trucks is around 6000-7000€ (roughly about the same in $).
You would need at least three or four of these to block the entrance in the picture, in addition to a retractable one (costing more than twice that) to allow access for delivery vehicles.

That would mean costs around 30000€ just for this single road entrance.
So I can understand to some degree that a community might be reluctant to invest so much money unless there was a pressing demand (as e.g. developed in Germany due to the frequent occurrences with many casualties).

[-] SpikesOtherDog@ani.social 2 points 5 days ago

I was looking at what I thought was the same thing, but it was quite different.

This place seems to be able to rent out heavy barriers for $3500 weekly

https://barrierhq.com/products/anti-ram-safety-barrier-mvb3x-3rd-gen-mifram

Sunbelt also has rentals.

https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment-rental/general-construction-tools/anti-vehicle-barrier/1180030/

I don't know if you have the same thing available in Germany or if the EU at large makes it easier to find things international within the Union. I would think that a village or small city might have a hard time funding these. My city is just over a quarter million people, if you don't count the surrounding municipalities. Seattle is almost 3x as large.

[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

There are also rental companies over here, probably useful for covering increased demand during huge one-time-events.
Most smaller communities help themselves by just parking a bunch of heavy cars or trucks across the streets leading to their events.
It is a somewhat ugly looking solution, but also works.

[-] FearMeAndDecay@literature.cafe 5 points 5 days ago

Cars definitely have been used maliciously in the USA. Like there have been times people tried and even successfully ran over protesters before so it’s definitely a possible danger. That being said, I’ve been there and I wouldn’t be too concerned about getting run over there. As others have mentioned, they made it a no driving zone now

[-] BiteRabbit@reddthat.com 1 points 5 days ago

Surrounding corporations, government buildings, and prisons cuz 🎶 "This is America"

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