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submitted 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) by Gsus4@mander.xyz to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[-] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 18 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

The article doesn't explain the battery, making it a bullshit site if you ask me, here is what they are talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery

'The vanadium redox battery (VRB), also known as the vanadium flow battery (VFB) or vanadium redox flow battery (VRFB), is a type of rechargeable flow battery which employs vanadium ions as charge carriers.[5] The battery uses vanadium's ability to exist in a solution in four different oxidation states to make a battery with a single electroactive element instead of two.[6]

For several reasons, including their relative bulkiness, vanadium batteries are typically used for grid energy storage, i.e., attached to power plants/electrical grids.[7] '

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 7 points 2 hours ago

I don't think I understand any better what the battery is then I did before. As per usual Wikipedia sucks at explaining concepts that you don't actually already understand.

[-] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 7 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Here's the short version.

A normal battery is a sealed cell. It has a positive and negative electrode, with an electrolyte between them. Usually many layers of this. When you charge it, a chemical change happens. When you discharge it, that chemical change is undone.

A redox flow battery uses fixed electrodes, but a liquid electrolyte that can be pumped and stored. This means you can increase overall storage capacity simply by adding more electrolyte tanks, without needing more electrodes. Think of it like a generator with a bigger gas tank.

The whole vanadium thing is just one of the metals used in the battery. There's a few kind of redox flow batteries using different chemistries

[-] jakobmn@feddit.dk 1 points 1 hour ago

Thank you! That is a smart solution to inrease capacity!

[-] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 hours ago

Yeah wikipedia is hit or miss, especially as technical people like to show off their fancy words and explain things in ways only technical people understand.

But it's Vanadium, and you can look that up elsewhere. The first large industrial vanadium battery (if I recall,) was some years back, I think in WA State.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 16 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 38 minutes ago)

The headline looks wrong, but it actually isn't.

The article specifies:

  • Total capacity: 2.1GWh
  • Peak output: 1.2GW
  • Ramp up time: a few milliseconds

That's what the "within milliseconds" in the title refers to.

Every power generator has a ramp up time. Think the time it takes to start the engine in a diesel generator, until it spins up and is able to output peak power.

Nuclear reactors can hare ramp-up times of hours, in some conditions even days.

This thing here can go from zero to peak output within almost no time, which makes it perfect to balance the sometimes erratic and unpredictable generation fluctuations of renewable energy production.

For comparison, coal or gas power generators usually have large flywheels that, once spinning, react almost instantly to power fluctuations in the network by converting their motion to electricity or the other way round. If these coal or gas generators aren't running, they can't be used to balance the fluctuations in the network, so battery solutions like the one in OP are required to actively manage the network stability.

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 2 points 2 hours ago

Thanks, I edited the headline to make it clearer, but this community is overrun with confidently incorrect folks.

[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 hours ago

Peak output needs to be 1.2 GW not GWh.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 points 37 minutes ago

Correct, the typo is mine, not from the article.

[-] Nighed@feddit.uk 1 points 2 hours ago

I thought that issue was considered solved by smart inverters now?

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 hours ago

Yeah, no, it's not going to output 1.2 gW in milliseconds.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago

The headline is most likely a misunderstanding, but "Output X Watt in Y time" isn't all that wrong, since it would be talking about how quickly the power supply can respond to demand.

Every power supply has a ramp-up time, and the way the headline is worded hints to a very short ramp-up time, which would be very helpful for network stabilization.

But yeah, it's likely the headline writer just misunderstood something.

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 18 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

We don't know soccer fields around these parts...

Anything but the Imperial System huh?

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 6 points 4 hours ago

It's 1,435 US rods square, or 1,333.6 imperial rods, simple.

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 hour ago

How much is that in chicken?

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago

US Leghorns or British broilers? Just multiply by 3.21 and add 27. Simple.

[-] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago

So that is like 1,435 dick lengths end to end? /s

[-] Imperious_melange@lemmy.world 32 points 9 hours ago

I wanted to research it myself since I didn't know how Redbox flow batteries operate. It is two giant tanks of liquid energy. When there's extra electricity from wind or solar, pumps move special vanadium-based liquids through a stack of cells, storing that energy as a chemical change. When electricity is needed later, the process runs in reverse and the liquids generate power for the grid. Unlike lithium batteries, the energy is stored in the liquid tanks, so making the battery bigger is mostly a matter of building larger tanks. The Swiss project will store about 2.1 GWh of energy—enough to help balance renewable power on a massive scale—and was chosen partly because redox-flow batteries are non-flammable, long-lasting, and can be cycled tens of thousands of times with little degradation

[-] Orygin@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago

I think that's the same kind of battery technology as explained in this video. Most certainly not the same chemistry used, but same in principle

[-] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago

I read some years back about I think the first big heavy industrial vanadium battery being built for some washington state company if I recall.

[-] NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net 4 points 5 hours ago

Cheers for putting the legwork in, they're even cooler than I thought

[-] darkmogool@feddit.org 8 points 7 hours ago

How big is a soccer field?

[-] betanumerus@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

"2 atom bombs, 6 elephants, and 74 gallons Farenheit. Just, anything but that alien metric system."

[-] darkmogool@feddit.org 1 points 2 hours ago

because we metric users are eeeeevil

[-] Aneorthisio@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

That'd be 691077 regular sized hamburgers laid next to each other in a rigid grid pattern, 797502 if laid in a hexagonal pattern, 891720 if squished.

[-] darkmogool@feddit.org 1 points 3 hours ago

Well…How big are regular sized hamburgers?

[-] hateisreality@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

1/3 to half the size of your appetite.

[-] darkmogool@feddit.org 2 points 2 hours ago

hmm… that's more like a variable than a cpnstant

[-] 0x0@infosec.pub 14 points 6 hours ago
[-] darkmogool@feddit.org 3 points 3 hours ago
[-] tias@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Between 4000 and 11000 square meters

[-] darkmogool@feddit.org 2 points 3 hours ago

That's an estimate, I guess? Well, it's still a better definition

[-] tias@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 hour ago
[-] darkmogool@feddit.org 1 points 1 hour ago

Aaaah corrupt ones.

[-] gnufuu@infosec.pub 3 points 6 hours ago

And how deep is a soccer field?

[-] tias@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 4 hours ago

Do you really mean to learn?

Cause we're living in a world of fools, breaking us down. When they all should let us be.

[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 9 points 10 hours ago

Asked for comments, they kept saying "Rest assured there is no death ray plans"

(/j)

[-] Imperious_melange@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

Yeah that's what the large hadron collider is for, everyone knows that.

[-] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 hours ago

They already destroyed the world by distorting out timeline when that weasel got into the collider when it was running, just a week before harambe.

[-] metermatic26@lemmy.world 15 points 11 hours ago
[-] NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net 19 points 13 hours ago

Wow, that's almost 10% of a single datacenter

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[-] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 13 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

able to output 1.2 GW within milliseconds

By exploding?

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 hours ago

When I flip the light switch in my room, I drain 6 nuclear reactors.

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 points 8 hours ago

Yeah, that's a bit too much a bit too fast, isn't it?

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

1.2GWh within milliseconds would be exploding.

Read the headline again, it only talks about GW not GWh. That means it can output 1.2GWh per hour, but it can ramp up to 1.2GW within milliseconds. And it likely can only keep that output for a very short time, which is exactly what you need to balance the fluctuations of renewable energy production.

[-] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 118 points 18 hours ago
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this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2026
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