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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by selokichtli@lemmy.ml to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

I didn't want to direct this question to Americans specifically because, at this point, other countries have shown support to Israel in one or the other way. If my country was financing this, I would be taking the streets. Shit, I'm right now in the hospital but all I can think about is protesting anyway just to feel I did something to stop this madness.

Are you doing something about this? Are you feeling unsettled? How do you feel about all this mess?

EDIT: So, buying Chinese stuff takes the USS Gerald Ford to Gaza’s coast. Also, TIL that that chocolate my cousin gave me when she was 20 and I was 5, (delicious stuff!) made me a slavist-ish. The fact remains, this genocide is being paid and supported by taxpayers money; of course, I was hoping that most of us didn’t pay taxes wishing for this. Thank you all for your responses, some of them were hard to swallow.

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[-] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 73 points 1 year ago

Since you probably buy stuff made in China like everyone else, you tell us.

[-] ComradeKhoumrag@infosec.pub 12 points 1 year ago

China meets the manufacturing needs for most of the world, it's economically not realistic to boycott them

That said, we still should boycott them, at least in principle.

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[-] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

If you read the thread, or at least my responses, you would probably made a more conscious effort to answer my question.

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[-] ctobrien84@lemmy.world 66 points 1 year ago

I mean, if you've purchased chocolate in the last century, you're supporting slavery by your logic. Same for many other commodities, but most people know about diamonds. You could be protesting your entire life, justifiably, about many things. Most people in the world cannot consume without inadvertently causing harm and suffering somewhere in the world. It's nice that you're now thinking about it though.

[-] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I believe you are taking my question out of context. I didn't start thinking about this just now. Ultimately, not every company owns representatives in the state. Yes, I believe we should be careful about what we consume and who's behind those products, but it needs to be in the power of the states to control the best practices to produce goods; it is not reasonable for an individual, for one citizen, to ask for this. It is different with our governments, we can and should demand for them to represent us with dignity. As individuals, we can demand accountability for their decisions taken in our names. Companies don't represent us, governments do.

[-] Aatube@kbin.social 58 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Leading question.

Edit: For an actual "answer", some people are in fact taking it to the streets. For your favorite country you can search for it and if you don't want to do that here's an article for the US. While you may argue that we should've expected this, at the time of financing all we know is that there was a first strike and people were angry. Now it's different, at least in my local circle.

Either way, this should not be a question for asklemmy. It should be in the politics community or something.

[-] Browning@lemmings.world 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Keep posting of that's all you can do right now.

[-] jimmydoreisalefty@lemmus.org 13 points 1 year ago

Great quote you made me think of.

The truth hurts, but silence kills. -Mark Twain

I feel that taking one side over the other without allowing for any nuance in that complicated clusterfuck over there is disingenuous. I feel very sorry for all civilians caught between the many murderous assholes in that region, but I can't fully support one group while completely condemning the other. Acting like it's a black and white issue is so very wrong and not helpful.

[-] neptune@dmv.social 9 points 1 year ago

But our government did pick a side. So what is our obligation, then?

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[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

Not good. All I can do is vote. Until they take that away.

[-] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago

Do you feel represented by one of the political parties you may have in your country? Would they act in a general agreement with your own convictions?

[-] Orbituary@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

I do not. Not one iota. That being said, I'm an American who's been around the world twice and speaks multiple languages. I consider myself reasonably left, but in this country I am extreme left. Our politicians are bought and paid for by lobbyists. The few who tend to be honest are either marginalized or silenced.

My vote counts for nothing. I will still vote in earnest.

[-] mawkishdave@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is why I started to support rank choice voting like they have in many countries in Europe. It's not perfect but a nice step forward from what we have.

[-] darkdemize@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago

I'm assuming you meant ranked choice, but the mental image of your typo is quite entertaining.

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[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I’m an anarchist with no political representation. My country (US) has never been in agreement with my convictions. I don’t expect it to in my lifetime, but I am disappointed it isn’t even headed in a non-authoritarian direction.

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[-] ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 1 year ago

DISGUSTING.

Prime minister of my country supports Israel because “they’re allowed to defend themselves”.

What is happening now, has nothing to do with defending themselves, it’s their mission to genocide. I cannot believe the entire world is fine with it. Western but also Arabian countries unfortunately.

In my opinion, “justice” does not exist. It never did. Because it seems the law doesn’t apply to Presidents and a country that purely stands for genocide.

[-] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

I love genocide. I just wish there was some way I could actually vote for it. Instead I'm stuck voting for the closest option which does none of what I want but fortunately both sides support Israel killing Muslims in mass.

I'll put this here because people are dumb as hell /s

[-] demystify@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

The only thing I'm dissatisfied with is their free hand with bombing civilians along with military targets. I can understand that Israel is angry, and rightfully so, but they fancy themselves a western country, being better than terrorist Hamas. They can't let their anger take control. Bombing civilians undermines their legitimatecy, I think they should try and be as surgical as possible, like they did in previous rounds of fighting. Other than that, I fully support their desire to root out Hamas. Though conquering Gaza only has any merit to it if they decide to stay and govern it themselves, otherwise Hamas would just rise up again.

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[-] java@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago

Sometimes I feel like people forget that Israel was actually attacked.

[-] serratur@lemmy.wtf 22 points 1 year ago

Still doesn't justify commiting a genocide

[-] marxistsynths19@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

Israel has been attacking Gaza and destroying Palestinian lives for the last 75 years. How is resistance not justified? Zionist idiot.

[-] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

My country has been voting to condemn Israel's treatment of Palestine in the UN until 2022 but they will probably vote the same now. As far as I know my country doesn't support Israel monetarily either so I'm pretty happy.

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[-] masquenox@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's never just been the US - Israel doesn't just have a whole bunch of enablers... said enablers also back the very idea of a modern-day Israel.

France, the UK, Germany, Australia, Apartheid-era South Africa all played their part in helping with all this - I guess the fact that it's all countries with histories that are deeply entwined with white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism is purely coincidence, eh?

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[-] SkepticElliptic@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

It's giving me Iraq war vibes, except my friends aren't getting involved. The escalation doesn't make sense at all unless you consider Netanyahu needed to distract from his aspirations of becoming a dictator.

[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

I want to finance a complete genocide of mosquitos and i'm not kidding.

[-] PetDinosaurs@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also please remember that Europe purchased nearly the entirety of products produced by slaves in the Americas.

If there were no European market there would have been little incentive for American slavery.

I guess the slave free northern states also purchased their fair share, but nothing compared to Europe.

[-] blindbunny@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago

It's almost like capitalism fosters slavery, weird 🤔

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[-] demesisx@infosec.pub 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In the US, speaking the truth about the Israel-Palestine ::cough::Palestinian genocide::cough:: war will get you cancelled by AIPAC astroturfers and useful idiots who just cancel who they’re told to cancel. That’s how they (the AIPAC, the military industrial complex, and AIPAC-run film industry..if you don’t believe me, why was Harvey Weinstein so friendly with ex-Mossad agents that he was able to use them against his opponents?) manufacture consent among normal people these days.

Additionally, 35 US states have anti-bds laws on the books punishing US citizens that choose not to buy products from Israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws In many of those US states you can be fired from government jobs for refusing to buy Israeli products in your own personal life.

[-] dirkgentle@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago

I don't mean to derail the conversation, but it pains me to say that Europeans have been financing the ethnic cleansing of Artsakh by buying Azerbaijani oil with almost no repercussion.

[-] daddyjones@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure I think Israel is engaged in genocide - although I'm deeply unhappy with some of their military approaches.

Hamas, on the other hand, is unashamedly aiming at genocide. Their started aim is the death of all Jews and they are frequently heard chanting "from the river to the sea".

[-] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If my country was financing this, I would be taking the streets.

If I took to the streets over this, I would make protestors look bad because I have no experience, no social skills, no support network, and I'm a terrible rhetorician, especially when I am angry. Additionally, my family is fast to call the cops and has promised me that they would cooperate with the police if I ever got on their radar, so my presence would be a security culture issue.

Are you doing something about this?

Well, I have chosen not to work for companies that participate in such genocides, which is not a completely vacuous statement because they have sent me recruitment emails to design their fucking missiles! But frankly, I am fighting my own battles right now. I am desperately trying to find work. I am constantly fighting insurers to pay for the few times I ever muster up the courage to use my insurance. I am fighting my own goddamn family who will throw me to the fucking wolves if I can't afford the rent. I am fighting the urge to walk off into the woods and fucking die of embarrassment at having accomplished so little at my age.

So no, I'm not really doing anything. I'll cop to that. I've copped to worse, and at least for now I can live with being a hypocrite. Sorry if that's unsatisfactory.

Are you feeling unsettled? How do you feel about all this mess?

I fucking HATE America, I fucking HATE world governments, and this just adds to the list of reasons why. Unsettled doesn't even begin to cover it.

[-] SecretPancake@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Germany is bound to support them no matter what. I understand why but there should be some conditions. It’s a sensitive subject here.

Beyond that I don’t really understand this conflict enough to have an objective opinion.

[-] TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I fell like most people have very little idea whats going on. The conflict is extremely complicated.

[-] SkepticElliptic@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Israel is retaliating against civilians for an attack carried out by Hamas. This is what America did in Afghanistan after the attack on the world trade center in 2001. It was dumb and it's dumb now.

[-] grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 year ago

That's my emotional understanding of the current situation. I supported the invasion of Afghanistan whole-heartedly the night it happened, but I was a child then. 9/11 was upsetting and rockets are exciting. Now, with maturity and hindsight, that invasion was a cruel mistake. I believe this current invasion is also a mistake.

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[-] jimmydoreisalefty@lemmus.org 6 points 1 year ago

Similar to all other wars, shitty but numb to human greed, at times.

Best when brought up organically, but steering toward it may also happen.

Teaching/learning and talking to as many people about it IRL, while also trying and failing on the interwebs.

[-] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

I don’t like it one bit.

The government sees it as a strategic need to have a strong ally in the region. That view will not change, at least not anytime soon. The Pentagon considers it a national security issue, which puts it beyond politics. Unfortunately, I have to live with that.

[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Defeated and hopeless mostly. Almost the same as I felt funding the war in the middle east after looking at the casualties and reading testimonies from US soldiers. It's long weighed heavily on me that half of every dollar I'm required to pay to the government is used to kill people who have nothing to do with me, especially as someone whose worked since he was 16. The war in the middle east was met with the largest protests in US history at the time and nothing changed. We then elected a democrat who was given a noble peace prize, he kept the war going and killed many civilians with drone strikes. I don't even own a house and the rate at which my savings are stacking up, there's not much I can even afford to do. Welcome to the machine.

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Call your congressperson and senators. They might not listen to just you but the more people call the more their positions can be moved.

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this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
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