49

So a while ago i got my hands on a old sewing machine sadly the foot pedal blew up on me and i also noticed that the machine made my fingers tingle (more on that in this old post here: https://sh.itjust.works/post/35395330 ).

After that i didnt touch the thing for a while but now i needed to sew something so i got myself a new motor and pedal for it online.

The motor fits neat to the machine and the pedal works. But after the last time i was a bit afraid to just touch it, decided to better do a voltage check first.

So i grabbed a Multi meter and connected one side to main earth, and the other side to the metal body of the machine.

And apparently there are 30-32V AC on the metal body of the machine :( Then i tested the current and it was 4.1uA.

I did the same thing for the motor spindle an and the results where even worse >.< 173V AC on the spindle and 43uA when i short it to main earth over the multi meter.

Now my question is:

Is this normal?

Is it maybe just some parasitic currents from the Motor windings acting as antenna and inducting voltage into the metal body of the machine?

Will it kill me if i touch it?

Should i ground the machine to earth using a second plug?

Should i isolate the motor from the metal machine body?

Here are some more pictures from my measurements and measurement setup:

top 22 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] asbestos@lemmy.world 39 points 1 month ago

Definitely change the plug into one that has earth as well, and make sure the motor body is grounded to the frame, and that the frame is grounded to the earth connector in the new plug

I cant change the plug, because it goes strait into the pedal. The pedal nor the motor has a grounding connection sadly.

I now grounded the machine using a second plug and it works...kinda anoying because i now need 2 plugs to use the machine, but better than nothing.

[-] Steve@startrek.website 3 points 1 month ago

Germany? Im guessing you aren’t allowed to change the plug end?

I could change it, i dont think there is any law against it as long as i am the only person using the machine, my problem is more practical. Even if i change the plug i would have to bypass the foot pedal, hence ending up with 2 wires in parallel basically the same as with the 2 plug solution.

[-] Pirasp@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago

The limits we look for in these cases (in germany) are:

  1. less than 50V AC and
  2. less than 0.5mA

(This is for touchable metal parts, that are not connected to earth)

So yeah, I'd try to avoid touching the motor spindle, but with that low of a current it shouldn't actually be a problem as any current flow at all will make the voltage drop significantly.

You can try grounding as many of the metal parts as possible, but the motor shaft will likely be difficult

I now used a second plug that has a grounding pin and connected the ground to the Machine body and now there isnt any voltage on it anymore. The RCD also didnt trip so i guess everything is fine and it was just parasitic induction.

[-] Pirasp@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If this was my machine I'd probably just use alligator clips and a jumper wire in the future. Whole house RCDs typically trip at about 30mA, so you are still well clear of that happening

[-] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Couldn't you ground it through a wire brush touching the shaft?

[-] Pirasp@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Yes, a carbon brush is the usual solution, but it is much more involved than just clipping an alligator clip to some metal parts. It will also eventually wear out and might get caught in something while in use

[-] ch00f@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

Your last image shows that your sewing machine plug has no earth ground. I’m not well versed in sewing machines enough to know if this is typical for sewing machines, but typically any appliance with no earth ground will insulate the user from either conductor.

You cannot count on the neutral wire to safely ground anything that the user touches.

Your readings indicate that there’s a small amount of voltage coupling onto the housing. Voltage alone doesn’t indicate much if there’s no current behind it, so it could be safe, but as another user indicated, you probably want external metal bits to be earth grounded. That’s the whole point of earth ground.

[-] Fifrok@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 month ago

I would say you're right about it being just parasitic/capacitive current. And 4.1 uA and 43uA is thousands of times smaller than what would be dangerous, so that's a no for the kill you part. If you're very woried about the reading, you could add a 10k-100k Ohm resistor between the machine body and the ground while measuring, if voltage drops to near zero it's fine.

If you decide to add a ground, please don't do it with a second plug. Replace the cord with a 3-core one, attach PE to both the machine body and motor.

What would speak against the second plug solution (besides it beeing anoying)?

[-] Fifrok@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's just safer, makes it impossible for the chassis to be un-grounded while the machine is powered. Doesn't really matter if you're the only one using the machine and trust yourself to always remember to check if it's pluged in.

I think this is rather unlikely to happen, but I should mention it:

There's also some potential to create objectionable current, since neutral is already bonded to earth. And if the PE is pluged into a into a different outlet (or somehow else has a diffrent path to earth), you create parallel paths. There would be small diffreneces between those paths in resistance (and voltage). That means a tiny current can circulate between them, instead of going through the intended ground path.

Those currents should be small, simillar to what you already measured, but they create unpredictability (edit: worded this wrong, they don't create unpredictability but rather are a sign of it, the unpredictability is caused by the closed loop to ground). If a real fault happens it could make the fault current split changing how a breaker responds. Also, if you have audio equipment, and the objectionable current path goes through it's ground path you could get some noise/humming

[-] sorter_plainview@lemmy.today 6 points 1 month ago

30V won't kill you. Even with 170V it might not cause much harm, since the current is in micro Amperes. I hope you have a good MCB, and even even good curcuit breakers. If they are present and they don't get tripped while operating or testing, it should not be lethal.

That said, you don't know the reason for this leak. Better to take it a repair shop. If you like doing it yourself open up and see if there is any visible tear on power line insulation. If nothing is visible if can be some issue with winding of motor, some other component.

You can use it with gloves, a good foot wear, and a good set of circuit breakers, if it has to be used, but I won't recommend taking such risks. Since it is an old machine I would say you get it repaired if possible.

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 2 points 1 month ago

30V won’t kill you.

Well, it definitely can, in certain circumstances -- if there's enough amperage available and if something (such as having wet hands) reduces the electrical resistance of your skin.


But, yes, with current in the micro-amps even when dead shorted, this shouldn't be too dangerous.

Though, OP feeling a tingling when they touch it gives me pause. 30V shouldn't really do that in most cases. OP is measuring AC voltage here, but maybe there's also a DC voltage on it?

[-] ObM@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Smells like phantom voltage/current to me. Get a high value resistor at least 100kOhm, preferably 1MOhm to start with. Connect the chassis to ground via that resistor and take the same measurement again. The voltage you are seeing should collapse.

For reference, RCD (current leakage safety switches) pop at abour 30mA depending on the local rules. So you are orders of magnitude under that.

Cheap multimeters can show weird numbers when measuring high-impedance floating metalwork, especially around mains wiring and electrical noise. That does not prove it is safe, but the raw voltage reading may not mean what it first appears to mean.

The tingling I wouldn’t trust just because, tingling… BUT it can well be a thing with non grounded or poorly grounded gear. I get to tingling from my laptop even though it is connected through a power pack.

The big issue with metal chassis and single insulated housings is that without a ground if it does develop a fault (say something hot melts abd grounds out and r a motor winding cracks), then you are genuinely hot with nowhere for current to go. It really should be grounded somehow if it’s an old chassis that isn’t designed with multiple insulation.

At the very least. Get a safety protected plug (residual current device). They are cheap and effective. But they are you last line of protection not your first.

  • not an engineer. YMMV. I don’t know anything and my advice probably faulty .. etc. but definitely if you know what you’re doing and can do it safely: test voltage with a big resistor (should be an easy test), get safety switch.
[-] Cad@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Thats a weird sympton. There usually isn't alot of electrical wiring in that kind of machine. Have you checked the wiring and socket for the light bulb? Maybe something with the power switch?

Seems unlikely that the new motor is bad in the same way as the old.

Yes i found the wire going to the light bulb, it isnt connected to anything rn, because the new motor dosent have a plug for it, and i dont need the lamp to work.

[-] Mpatch@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Okay this is fun. So first of your amp reading is no Bueno. As I can tell you have no real load on the circuit so your amp draw will be low. Until something acts as a load like a light bulb contacting the frame and the neutral line or your hands. So the amp will rise.

Now the next thing there is power going to the motor, with out the foot pedal engaged?

A quick hunch makes me say is the new foot pedal wired backwards? On ac circuits it's you cut power at the switch and the rest of the unit is connected to neutral line all the time.

Those sowing machine motors are typically "universal motors" they are brushed motors that can run on both ac and DC. So power flows from footpedals to brushes to armature, to windings back out the other brush. It's a bit on the weird side that the shaft has voltage. It could be from a brush sitting funny maybe. But I would most definitely just check the wiring orientation for starters. Then go from there. Adding a ground connection isn’t a solution. A ground wire is to prevent you from getting hurt when this happens.

[-] nusse@chaos.social 0 points 1 month ago

@einfach_orangensaft Measure current. Might be capacitive through capacitor in motor. And check your GCD.

I did measure the current

And apparently there are 30-32V AC on the metal body of the machine :( Then i tested the current and it was 4.1uA.

GCD?

this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2026
49 points (100.0% liked)

Ask Electronics

4145 readers
1 users here now

For questions about component-level electronic circuits, tools and equipment.

Rules

1: Be nice.

2: Be on-topic (eg: Electronic, not electrical).

3: No commercial stuff, buying, selling or valuations.

4: Be safe.


founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS