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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Menu@slrpnk.net to c/lemmy@lemmy.ml

The screenshot shows the recommendations from https://join-lemmy.org/.

Still being federated with exploding-heads does not mean the instance supports them. But it means that shit-heads are allowed to take part in the discussions on their communities. They do intoxicate the discussions we will have. They will attack minorities. Maybe you will not be harassed by them, more vulnerable people will be. They are allowed to moderate communities on these instances. Exploding-heads members actively guide young and unknowing people to their hateful instance.

They try to start discussions about the holocaust https://sh.itjust.works/post/227268. They create communities only to crosspost exploding-heads content https://lemmy.world/c/pharma They take over discussions against them https://exploding-heads.com/comment/132189 "WHY are vulnerable people joining a decentralized system? Isnt this why you want a closed, not for public eyes community?"

This was a link to exploding-heads, because when someone copies a permalink of a comment from them on another instance, it will be a link to their instance.

Are we building a place where vulnerable people are welcome and safe or are we building a place where nazis are welcome and safe?

They want you to block them, they comment that everywhere. They block people who are in favor of defederating them https://sh.itjust.works/post/225714 When their opponents won't see them anymore, they can harass and recruit without being noticed.

Blocking will not solve the problem. They will spread even when you close your eyes.

~~Maybe this was not done intentionally, but now~~ there is a post with a list of 'health communities on Lemmy' with the first entry guiding to exploding heads. https://lemmy.world/post/396561

It is still possible that some of the mentioned instances do support them. The owner of sh.itjust.works says that because of “free speech” all other instances would be allowed. It is suspicious to me that his line is drawn only for lemmygrad https://sh.itjust.works/comment/130474

The decision to block the Lemmygrad instance was less a question of censorship, and more an issue of personal conviction. As a volunteer dedicating my personal resources and time to facilitating a space for users to create, discover, and discuss - not just on this instance, but across the Fediverse - I admit that this choice was made alone, selfishly, without the consent or thoroughly considering the collective opinion of the community. With the above said, sh.itjust.works has had the lemmygrad instance blocked from its first day.

I’d like to also point out that the lemmygrad instance has far more blocked instances than what is currently blocked here. Maybe you can create a post on that instance to see what that’s all about and report back?

At the same time they seem to ignore the call and vote to defederate with exploding-heads https://sh.itjust.works/post/433483.

They rejected to delete The_Donald from sh.itjust.works until they feared to get isolated from the other instances: https://lemmy.ml/post/1467310. They where aware of The_Donald and ignored early warnings. (https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/266248). TD was more important to them than keeping the only mod of their 4th biggest community c/patientgamers (https://sh.itjust.works/post/291747, https://sh.itjust.works/post/388922)

Since The_Donald was removed, I did not find more racist content on the mentioned servers. That is part their tactics. They act harmless but recruit to their instance, attract likeminded people and chase others away. Discussions on sh.itjust.works about such topics are very toxic already, soon they might be able to do more harm.

(My research is very limited, as i could not search for all exploding-heads member content on other instances by entering their domain. I know there are nice communities on sh.itjust.works.)

What can be done? On joinmastodon.org there is a Mastodon Server Covenant with very few useful rules, one of them is "Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia". https://joinmastodon.org/covenant It would be a first step to implement these rules for join-lemmy.org. At least instances that want to be recommended on there should have to agree to that rule.

More actions should be taken now. Please make suggestions. Things will only become more complicated. The next reddit wave is incoming.

For those who did not already know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

https://www.upworthy.com/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone

This is not the first time new platforms face these problems, do we really have to repeat the same mistakes?

-Share/crosspost

-Contact admins

update: lemmy.word defederated eh

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[-] antik@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Exploding-heads.com has been blocked by lemmy.world

Full list of linked and blocked instances can be found here: https://lemmy.world/instances

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[-] MrComradeTaco@lemmy.fmhy.ml 80 points 1 year ago

Fucking christian fundamentalists fascists. They are a fucking cancer in every social media platform.

[-] MrComradeTaco@lemmy.fmhy.ml 33 points 1 year ago

The worst thing it's they are being funded by the conservative elite nations to speak fascist hate all over the internet.

[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 19 points 1 year ago

It's super effective! Humanity hurt itself in its confusion!

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[-] gabuwu@beehaw.org 75 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They are going to cause issues sooner rather than later in communities that don’t defederate from them. It’s quite literally just a given. I’m shocked some of those instances haven’t defederated from them already.

[-] Cube6392@beehaw.org 45 points 1 year ago

A mix of naïveté and bad faith actors taking advantage of the naïveté are leading to the current environment, it seems like to me

[-] gabuwu@beehaw.org 27 points 1 year ago

I think the whole attitude of "oh just block the community and ignore it" really comes from a privilege of not having to deal with the way those communities tend to intersect negatively with vulnerable communities when they were ignored on reddit and the mess that caused. Blocking their biggest communities from your own account does not stop them from giving them the potential to join discussions in bad faith, DMing threats, open up potential doxxings, community brigading, harassment, etc. There comes a point where simply ignoring them does not work as they always try to force their bullshit into communities outside of them and stir trouble if they aren't cut off preemptively. You aren't deplatforming them by defederating them, you are taking away their megaphone and potential to cause real harm those exact communities have shown to do time and time again in the past.

[-] Cube6392@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago

The question I always find myself asking is, why is it that people only expect the targets of abuse to do the filtering of that abuse, and why, other than you yourself would like to enact abuse, would you want to leave people engaging in abusive behavior in position to continue being abusive? Beehaw has lamented there not being more flexible moderation tools allowing us to perform more powerful moderation actions, enabling the filtration of abuse on otherwise good servers, but until those tools exist, what good reason is there to ignore and enable abuse?

[-] Rhabuko@feddit.de 14 points 1 year ago

It's this (mostly) American delusion of unlimited free speech on the internet and it never works out 🤷‍♂️.

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[-] Cube6392@beehaw.org 59 points 1 year ago

They're playing the traditional Alt-Right playbook, and they're playing a bunch of instance admins like fiddles. I've noticed a consistent pattern of abusive trolls being from that instance. My secondary account is on sh.itjust.works, and I'm looking for another instance to be my secondary instance that I use to look at lemmy.world content I can't see from this, my primary account. Thus far, there aren't any instances I can find that have a federation / defederation list that matches my ideal list, so for now, I have my happy account and my "it stresses me out" account.

It seems like there are two camps here in the threadiverse. People who are excited to find an instance admin who moderates the way they like, and people who think an instance admin is only responsible for uptimes and that this entire experiment should be fully unmoderated

[-] IsThisLemmyOpen@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 1 year ago

Join us at lemmy.dbzer0.com. We're federated with most instances including Beehaw. And no Tankies or Fascists are here. lemmygrad and explodingheads are both defederated.

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[-] terribleplan@lemmy.nrd.li 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Be the change you want to see. Setting up an instance is surprisingly easy, it's the admin stuff that will take much more time, and finding users that will probably be hard. Also scaling once you hit a certain level of size/traffic, but that'd be a good problem to have. To me the most beautiful part of the fediverse is that if you're not finding the instance with rules/defederation/etc you want you can make that place exist.

If you are interested in doing so I'd be more than happy to give what advice or help I can.

[-] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 13 points 1 year ago

Running your own is the way, and you get to choose. I personally don't defederate any instances so far, and I think in some way being able to see that content and be aware that it exists is good to not become an echo chamber and remain aware of the gravity of the problem.

Being outside of the US, I wasn't aware of how bad the alt-right was until they started invading Reddit, which used to be rather welcoming and accepting, as was Twitter many years ago. If we just defederate them, it's easy to forget it even exists, and end up with essentially two competing echo chambers.

If not already a feature, instances could filter remote communities and drop posts/comments from locally defederated instances so that local users don't see that content despite the remote instance hosting it. You own the server, you can present the content however you want.

I'm sure in time some of those filtered instances will pop up, if they haven't already.

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[-] Belgdore@lemm.ee 57 points 1 year ago

IMO the best defense is education. Make these people and their bigotry known. I had not heard of them before this post, but now I can be on alert for them, and avoid interacting with them and report them in the future.

Making the basic rules like Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia should be a no brauner. Pls add this rule

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[-] OtakuAltair@vlemmy.net 44 points 1 year ago

Absolutely agree that instances featured in http://join-lemmy.org/ should all follow those basic rules:

Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia

Concerning to see that both vlemmy.net and lemmy.world are federated with them; I'm mainly on these.

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[-] terribleplan@lemmy.nrd.li 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I expect the moderators of communities to do sufficient policing of their community to make sure it follows the rules of the instance it is on and the rules of that community. If those rules permit something you disagree with (or don't permit something you do want to see) the power is in your hands as a user to not participate or even see that community. The only way for a user to guarantee they won't interact with someone from instance X (whether that is exploding-heads or lemmygrad or whatever you don't like) is to only interact with communities on instances that have them defederated. There are places you can get a more curated and aggressively moderated experience, and have been recommending places such as beehaw to anyone looking for that.

I will take action against:

  • Local users harassing someone
  • Local users breaking local rules
  • Local users repeatedly breaking remote rules
  • Local communities that break local instance rules
  • Remote users harassing local users
  • Remote users repeatedly breaking local rules
  • Remote instances that repeatedly allow its users to break local rules
  • Remote instances that repeatedly allow its users to harass my users

The first rule on my instance is a catch-all "Be welcoming", that will be wielded to aggressively remove far more than just "racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia".

As an admin I don't have the time or desire to police:

  • Local users interacting on remote communities, so long as they are following remote rules
  • Remote communities
  • Remote users interacting with remote users/communities

I do hope for a way to better curate (or just disable for now) the "All" feed, at the very least for anyone who isn't logged in. Given the general rules above that feed may include disagreeable posts, and is not a good representation of my instance or the type of community most users there will experience.

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[-] eating3645@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

~~Even if these servers federate with exploding heads, the individual servers would still moderate content coming from exploding heads users on their servers, no? I agree that there are clearly a lot of shitty users there, but I have not seen a strong argument from you on how federating with them is a problem. Their content here is actively moderated.~~

~~I could very well be wrong, in which case I will eat my words, but it seems like a bit of an over reaction to me.~~

Just took a quick browse of their instance, eww...

[-] C4RCOSA@lemmygrad.ml 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"First they came for the Communists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me

And there was no one left

To speak out for me"

  • Pastor Martin Niemöller

Watch for those instances that choose to defederate from the communist instances, for the most effective anti-fascists have been the communists.

10 million fascists were killed, wounded or captured during the Second War War on the eastern front.

Watch for free speech absolutists, centrists, and those who claim to be apolitical. Silence is violence. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

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[-] hawkwind@lemmy.management 25 points 1 year ago

Join an instance that does not allow local communities. Then you can subscribe remotely to whatever you want and block whatever you don't.

[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 year ago

MOM!!! People are disagreeing with me!!!! :(

Pwease defederate

[-] animist@lemmy.one 20 points 1 year ago

Lick my unwashed taint chud

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[-] IsThisLemmyOpen@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 year ago

Don't care, my captain already defederated them. Y'all need to pressure your admins to defederate them. An outsider like me ain't gonna influence policies of instances I'm not a member of.

[-] HRDS_654@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Here's the thing, while I don't think Nazi views should be supported this is a general instance and as such there are going to be a lot of shitty people here, Nazi's included. The strength of the fediverse is that we can make our own instance "with blackjack and hookers" so to speak. There are already instances, in fact, that are a lot more strict in who they allow. Again, this is not a support for these views as I don't support hate for anyone. It's the paradox of tolerance dictates that the intolerant will eventually take over, which is why we cannot be tolerant of fascism, hate, Nazi's, etc.

[-] scrappy_Duncan@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

So, dumb question but what is exploding-heads? Are they actual Nazis or like far-right wackos and MAGA nuts?

[-] Atemu@lemmy.ml 32 points 1 year ago

actual Nazis or like far-right wackos and MAGA nuts

Is there much of a difference nowadays?

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[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

A little of column A, a little of Columbine

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[-] hyperhopper@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Trying to transitively get the world to defederate from everybody you don't like is a terrible idea. That will just lead to over moderation and the community becoming bland. Everybody will want somebody else defederated from everybody else which will destroy the interconnectedness of the fediverse. Pushed to it's extreme, citing the paradox of tolerance leada to Nazi or USSR levels of totalitarianism and fascism against any perceived thought crime.

They are defederated, that's a reasonable measure to get rid of most of it. Now just ignore it.

[-] Rhabuko@feddit.de 12 points 1 year ago

Good to see that my admins already dealt with it.

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this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2023
256 points (100.0% liked)

Lemmy

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19 users here now

Everything about Lemmy; bugs, gripes, praises, and advocacy.

For discussion about the lemmy.ml instance, go to !meta@lemmy.ml.

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