505
submitted 2 months ago by Beep@lemmus.org to c/technology@lemmy.world

Batteries have become much cheaper, making energy storage far more affordable.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 77 points 2 months ago

And yet, EV prices stubbornly high in North America.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 44 points 2 months ago

North America has little competition because of the tariffs on everything not made in USA.
AFAIK Canada is getting out of that shadow. I read an article about a month ago, how Canadian imports were routed through USA, and that it stifled EV adoption in Canada.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 months ago

EV adoption was stifled by MAGA Premieres killing incentives and ripping out public chargers, while giving money to Detroit to keep building shitty trucks and muscle cars.

Meanwhile, to sell EVs in Europe, XPing is getting them made in Austria using Magna, a Canadian company. Why didn't Carney/Ford insist on this in Ontario?

BYD tried to build buses in Ontario but they were so shit they had to close the plant and pay a bunch of lawsuits. And BYD is hurting, they just laid off 100,000 worldwide.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

BYD tried to build buses in Ontario but they were so shit they had to close the plant and pay a bunch of lawsuits.

Wow interesting I didn't know that, I've heard that China has too many car makers, and some of them would have to go. So this is probably just the beginning of an adjustment for Chinese makers.

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 months ago

Are they hurting? They still made a massive amount of profit, it's just that their lead is shrinking. They're still the biggest EV manufacturer by far, though Geely could catch up in a few years.

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

This is actually one of the very few places that US tariffs make sense. (Not from a consumer perspective of course, but from a nationalist industry protection point of view.) The rest of the tariffs the US places are silly because there isn’t much other manufacturing in the US to protect.

[-] ellen.kimble@piefed.social 11 points 2 months ago

Oil dependency is a national security issue for a lot of countries, tariffs on EVs have really backfired here while also increasing climate change

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 months ago

Nope. Tariffs reduce competition and you end up with a shitty local option that just costs more and sales die anyway.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

This is actually one of the very few places that US tariffs make sense.

Not really if you want fair competition.

[-] Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 months ago

It's not fair competition if labor standards are far lower in the country being imported from.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Absolutely correct, we don't want a competition based on social dumping or highest subsidies.
That's why you make tariffs to compensate for that like the EU does, but EU has higher standards than USA, and is hit by tariffs in USA anyway, and although China has state subsidies, the 150% tariff doesn't make the competition fair, it simply excludes any car made in China from being sold in USA.

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

A la corporate profits.

There is a reason why the United States government blocks the sale of Chinese EVs. It would destroy the American car sector.

[-] Octagon9561@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

It should be destroyed

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 months ago

If only prices were related to costs ... 😄

[-] Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

There are plenty of EVs below the median price Americans are paying for new cars ~$50k. People aren't buying EVs because they don't like them / the dealerships aren't pushing them, not the price as they're willing to shell out even more for a top of the line pickup.

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

There isn’t an EV for sale in America I want. Almost all are SUVs and the ones that aren’t still have iPads instead of dashboards and data tracking.

There is one that I want in Europe but I can’t have it because I’m a free American.

[-] njordomir@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

People will literally take any excuse not to pay attention while driving. All this iPad on wheels stuff has gone too far. I was driving a newer car recently, in a foreign country, on unfamiliar roads, and had to figure out how to use the defrost VIA THE FUCKING TOUCHSCREEN while driving. A moment longer an I would have been driving with my head out the window trying to find a space to pull over. Give me a spedo, tachometer, and some knobs for the air and I'll be set. What beats the good old three knob (direction, fan speed, temp) combo? It's practically perfect. All these distractions should be banned. If there is a radio, steering wheel controls should be mandatory and they should test them by putting average folks in the driver seat and asking them to perform basic functions. If it's not intuitive, if it's not distracting, it shouldn't get manufactured.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 44 points 2 months ago

making electrified transport a reality

Electrified rail remains the most efficient form of transportation and has been available since the late 1800s......

People are just so obsessed with cars that they ignored the safest, most efficient, and environmentally friendly option for over a hundred years.

I guess the future is bound to be filled with dangerous traffic with even heavier cars, and filled with millions of batteries filled with lithium mined by impoverished children.

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 months ago

I don't think it's an "obsession with cars" or that people are "ignoring" electrified rail.

The problem is that there are things that are in your direct control, like buying a car and using the roads which exist. Then, there are things outside your direct control, like trying to get your government to install electrified rail. Even if you have a really responsive government that isn't captured by special interests, getting rail built and up and running can take a decade. And, if you need to get from A to B, you can't wait for a decade. Even if you're really pro-rail during that decade you still need to travel, so you're likely to be forced into getting a car. Once you have a car, then rail might become less of a priority because you are now a car user. Maybe eventually you'll still want to use the rail system, but for now you have a car, so your priorities are still going to include car priorities.

This all changes if you live somewhere where there's already great rail service. In that case, you might already have rail available when you move somewhere and all you need to do is encourage your local government to keep funding rail and not subsidizing cars. At that point, the car driver demographic is small and easy to ignore.

The problem is in switching from one system to the other. You need a government that is going to weather the complaints from drivers for years while the rail infrastructure is being put in place until you get to a point where drivers can start selling their cars and switching to rail. That's really hard to do though, because going from poor rail infrastructure to good rail infrastructure can take a decade, and politicians often have terms lasting only 4 years or so. That means that they have to take on the expense and pain of starting a rail project and then facing an election long before the system is up and running. It's actually surprising how many politicians are willing to do that, given that it's so hard on their political careers. It's unsurprising that most of them don't want to do it because it means getting re-elected is much more difficult than if they just stick with the status quo.

Meanwhile, the special interests like car companies, car dealerships, gas stations, etc. are all going to be lobbying against any rail projects. In North America it's even harder because car companies are local, whereas the companies that make trains are mostly European. So, the car-related lobby can talk all about the impact on local jobs, whereas the rail lobby has to deal with the jobs mostly being in Europe. Even without that, it's hard to change things because of the issue of diffuse costs and concentrated interests. Hundreds of thousands of commuters might benefit from a rail system, but it's probably not their #1 priority, it's something they care about, but at best it's #4 or #5. Meanwhile for car companies, etc. it's a top priority. While you might not want to go to every city council meeting where this is being discussed. It's almost certain that the auto lobby will ensure their voice is heard because it's at the top of their list.

In the end, it's a lot more complex than just people being obsessed with cars, or ignoring light rail.

[-] titanicx@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 months ago

The infrastructure to build and run would be enormous in most of the US. In smaller, more compact countries, sure. But in the area I live, I couldn't imagine this.

[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 16 points 2 months ago

Not when compared to the maintenance and cost of installing the amount of multi lane interstate and highways we currently have in the US.

Electric rail isn't a solution for every commuter in the US, but it is the solution for most commuters, as 80% of Americans live in urban environments.

Also, the argument that America is too large to have rail isnt very logical when countries like Russia or China depend on it for the vast majority of their logistics.

[-] RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

And yet the US has an interstate highway network that requires constant maintenance far exceeding that of a railway network

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 34 points 2 months ago

It's amazing how much batteries have decreased in price, we now not only have mid range cars that can be electric, the lower range sub compacts have been entering the EV market too.
Among all the shit happening today, this is actually a bright spot, making an EV more affordable to normal households.
Maybe except USA that is clearly behind now, despite Tesla was a major influence in the early days of EV.

[-] Frozentea725@feddit.uk 12 points 2 months ago

All the shit happening may lead to an earlier transition into renewables, ironically trump to help reduce the impacts of climate change. We should name the new wind turbines in his honour. But yeah the US will be fucked, power in the new currency in electrostates and renewable is significantly cheaper

[-] Scubus@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 months ago

Nah, i hate this move to name good stuff after horrible people. I get that Trump wouldnt like his name being attatched to it, but heres the thing: is trumps suffering more important than everyone elses suffering? Because by imortalizing his name into a project like that you are ensuring that future generations learn of his ideologies.

I want him to get kirked where his name just vanished from the history books. A small footnote that he was the least popular president ever, outside of that it would be so nice if I never heard his name again after like 3 months.

What really sells it for me is erika kirks reaction. I havent actually been following the whole situation as again i dont care about right wing grifters, but projecting myself onto erika i would feel devestated that my husbands memory literally lasted like a month. All that influence, all those lives ruined, and yet you left a grand total of 1 month worth of memes as the culmination of your entire life story, then you are forgotten. That, to me, is both the best "punishment" and more importantly the best way for the world to signify to these people that their ideologies arent tolerated. It sends a message to their family about what happens when you attatch yourself to a monster. It shows the world that even if you care about a grifter, the world does not.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] BygoneNeutrino@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

Lol. Although this claim might be technically true, comparing the cost of the first prototype lithium ion battery with a modern mass produced batteries is apples to oranges.

[-] Gork@sopuli.xyz 12 points 2 months ago

But the savings haven't flowed down to us. Gotta make line go up, it seems.

[-] tal@lemmy.today 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Lithium ion batteries are far cheaper now at a consumer level than they were thirty years back.

EDIT: I'm actually surprised that a higher proportion of laptops today don't ship with 100 Wh batteries. Go back some years, and shrinking the battery had a much larger difference in cost than it does today. The larger battery gives you longer battery longevity (makes it more reasonable to charge to 80%, say), can be used to make a laptop run more quickly, can power more devices. The only drawback is weight, and it isn't that heavy.

[-] Limonene@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

In 1991, lithium-ion batteries cost around $9,200 per kilowatt-hour — 33 years later, they cost just $78.

Where can I get lithium-ion batteries for $78 per kilowatt-hour?

[-] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 4 points 2 months ago

The price of the batteries was never really the issue, it was their weight versus their capacity with some consideration towards size and robustness.

As far as I can tell, today the biggest hurdle is charging.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You obviously weren't buying batteries in the 70's or the 80's or the 90's.
So my guess is that you are younger than 40.

[-] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

As it happens, actually I was buying batteries in the 1970's. They were massive and lasted plenty long enough to play audio cassettes for several days.

Edit: I'd also point out that three decades is 1996, not 1976, that's five decades.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Nonono that is outright false, even 6 of the big D batteries, would last only a few hours in even a small ghetto blaster of the late 70's. Radio yes, tape no. The tapes took massive amounts of power even in a small player for the time.
But apart from that all other uses of batteries were a pain, like in flashlights that weren't even very good by today's standards, or bicycle lights where batteries were a joke so we had to use dynamos.

Your memory is simply wrong. IDK if they have declined 99%, but for sure batteries today are both 10 times better and only a tenth the price compared to the 70's.
Although they are just fake numbers that seem right, it actually fits with the 99%
Althoug 3 decades only brings us back to the mid 90's, I think that at least in some cases it is true.

Batteries are way cheaper and better now, whether it's 80% or 99% IDK, but for sure iẗ́s more than 80%.

[-] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 4 points 2 months ago

Having had a mono radio cassette player in my bedroom in 1976, running off D-cells, that was not my experience.

The biggest drain was the volume, not the cassette player. You noticed it getting slower and slower, but the drain came from playing it loud.

My Sony Walkman a few years later ran forever on its batteries.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] ellen.kimble@piefed.social 3 points 2 months ago

Yeah the price of batteries has collapsed within the last six months. The US lithium technology is still several generations behind what is available in China

[-] brennesel@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 months ago

The energy density steadily increased over time while prices decreased: This article includes some interesting background info and the following chart.

[-] Womble@piefed.world 3 points 2 months ago

It should be pointed out that those two changes are very much not equal. Energy density has only increased by a factor of ~5, whereas cost has fallen by a factor of ~90 (by eye).

[-] viov@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

We all dream of electric open source vehicles and public transit!

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2026
505 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

85060 readers
2488 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS