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‘We can’t confuse Hamas with all Palestinians’: Spain says amid aid review (www.aljazeera.com)

submitted 1 year ago by NightOwl@lemm.ee to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 280 points 1 year ago

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[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 140 points 1 year ago

Really makes you think about why Hamas is so radicalized, doesn't it? It's not like you can pull a Muslim out of a hat and radicalize them. People in a stable, healthy, and fair socioeconomic position do not see violence as an answer. People who live under constant oppression, inequality, and fear do.

[-] drolex@sopuli.xyz 99 points 1 year ago

And the irony is that Israel allowed Hamas to be funded by Arabic countries 25 years ago when it was a way to weaken Arafat and the PLO. Everything in this area is fucked beyond parody. No authority on either side has any idea about morality.

[-] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 40 points 1 year ago

The same parallels with how the US funded what would later become Al Qaeda to fuck with the Soviets. Then they did 9/11.

[-] Touching_Grass@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

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[-] wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 53 points 1 year ago

They arent justifying hamas, they are highlighting how israel actively created the environment that gave hamas the capability to do this.

[-] drolex@sopuli.xyz 48 points 1 year ago

I don't think any sane person is justifying the horrors committed by Hamas. But they seem to be somewhat logical consequences to the last 30 (60?) years of fuckery in the area.

Israel has been forced into existence and had to be extra tough to continue to exist when all its neighbours were looking for a quick genocide, Gaza is basically an open sky prison, the whole world is toying with the concepts of religion and nationalism in the area, everybody in the area is getting increasingly radicalised, major powers have been having proxy wars around here, politicians are playing 4D snooker to stay in power by any means necessary... The list goes on and on

[-] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 16 points 1 year ago

More like 100 years. The british began mass immigrating Jews to Israel back in 1923.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago

Say that to Israel. The average age of the population in Gaza is 18. Unless there was a population boom of unprecedented proportions 18 years ago. (There wasn't) Something seriously wrong is going on.

I don't support Hamas's attack. But Israel isn't the victim. The people of Palestine and even Israel are the victims. And ultimately, the government of Israel is the aggressor. They could stop this. But they don't. They just make excuses and dehumanize the Palestinians. Then act surprised when they get the response they want.

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 30 points 1 year ago

The average age of the population in Gaza is 18.

Of note: The blockade of Gaza is going on for a good 16 years, now. About half of Gazans grew up under that regime and they're just about reaching fighting age now, already having gone through "what might I possibly be in the future" age and, well, there's not exactly many options are there.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

Exactly. Regardless of who started this. At some point someone's going to have to be the bigger person. And unfortunately that can literally only be israel. And they are absolutely refusing. No matter how good or bad people in guys that are Palestinians in general behave. They are just counted phones to Israel and many other Middle Eastern powers.

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[-] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 24 points 1 year ago

Are you talking about Israel or Hamas? Because they've both killed a lot of civilians. Israel has actually killed more.

[-] Porka_911@sopuli.xyz 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Source BBC News on the hostage situation "The focus appears to be on a swap involving women and children - including Israelis and other nationals - in an exchange for Palestinian women and children in Israeli jails."

[-] TheTetrapod@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

This is the second thread I've seen today with your awful takes. Probably worth a block, but I don't believe in it. Just know that you're super fucking wrong.

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[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 64 points 1 year ago

Also, about half of Israel's jewish citizens = secular people who want peace

It seems to be the ultra-religious on both sides that are constantly making things worse.

[+] CordanWraith@aussie.zone 9 points 1 year ago

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[-] steakmeout@aussie.zone 10 points 1 year ago

You can't understand not wanting to leave but instead voting via democratic process only to be dissatisfied/alarmed that more authoritarian, right wing demagogues are pushing the Overton Window right and eroding democracy?

Do you live on Mars? This is happening everywhere.

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[-] joelthelion@lemmy.world 63 points 1 year ago

What makes the problem hard is that there are a lot of dickheads on both sides, not just the governments. You can be an oppressed victim AND a dick. These things are not mutually exclusive, unfortunately.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Plus Israel's dickery gets blind support from America. I'd guess if the Americans demanded actual concessions from Israel this would no longer be a problem, they'd have two states already. As it is, they have every economic and political incentive to just squeeze the Palestinians harder.

[-] Misconduct@startrek.website 8 points 1 year ago

You mean the American government surely. Americans can't even get our government to do shit for Americans lmao

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[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Isreali citizens = also victims, although much less abused and arguably somewhat complicit if they immigrated.

[-] InputZero@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 year ago

This part always makes me feel ambivalent about the Israelites in the conflict. Israeli citizens are complicit victims, and that's a contradiction but it's also true. Civilians are getting hurt and dying and that's not okay. However those same Israeli citizens are also supporting a basically genocidal government. Thousands of guidanceless rockets were fired at Isreal, are they expected not to respond? Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been victimized for their entire lives, are they expected not to respond?

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you're just born in Tel Aviv or Gaza City, I don't think you should be blamed for these military things. Maybe you support Hamas or Otzma Yehudit, but you're kind of a product of your environment, and if tangential support is all you do you're still a bystander. Maybe not a great example of humanity, but a bystander none the less.

I would have to be pretty truly desperate to consider aliyah myself, even before there was a war. I guess I could do it, and then support forces in Israel for peace, but I'm not sure if I'd make any difference, and they're going to be reluctant to let in my never-practiced ass even without me being openly hostile to the whole project.

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[-] pingveno@lemmy.ml 170 points 1 year ago

It's been 17 years since the last election. Assuming only 18 and up could vote, that means only people current around 34 and up could vote. So the bulk of Palestinians didn't even have a chance to vote in that election. Not to mention that they were given the choice between a corrupt faction (Fatah) and a possible less corrupt faction (Hamas).

[-] AdamHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 48 points 1 year ago

I am so afraid this message is getting lost. There has been a deliberate push to paint this latest incident to be the reason that neighborhoods had to be flattened and civilians slaughtered.

[-] davepleasebehave@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

why can't they hold elections?

[-] rappo@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago

Conveniently, the Palestinian government is denying all citizens the right to vote because those who live in Jerusalem would not be included. It helps Hamas keep power while pinning blame elsewhere.

They scheduled one for last year to get on Biden's good side, but that never happened.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/1/27/palestinian-elections-democracy-for-no-one

[-] steakmeout@aussie.zone 14 points 1 year ago

Because Abbas is a lying, snivelling turd who pretends to care about his people.

[-] tegs_terry@feddit.uk 83 points 1 year ago

Here here. At least somebody has some fucking balls. Perhaps because it's not a mess they created.

[-] madcaesar@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Hear, hear, not here, here.

[-] tegs_terry@feddit.uk 37 points 1 year ago

Quite write, my mistake.

[-] ohitsbreadley@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 year ago

...my mistake.

I think you meant "missed steak."

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 66 points 1 year ago

Go Spain.

[-] Rolder@reddthat.com 55 points 1 year ago

Haven’t surveys shown that a majority of Palestinians support Hamas?

[-] Auli@lemmy.ca 81 points 1 year ago

Sure but you try being killed and kicked out of your homes. I'm sure you would not like the people who are doing it either. Israel has created this mess.

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 58 points 1 year ago

People forget Israel is the one with the power and creating this issue. If Israel actually backs off and treats Palestine as at least human, then I think (and hope) most people will see that Hamas needs to be destroyed as they are a terrorist group.

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[-] Grant_M@lemmy.ca 66 points 1 year ago

Hamas kills anyone who doesn't bow to them, including Palestinians.

[-] desconectado@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago

I mean if you live in a country controlled by a terrorist group that kills anyone who is not their side, and someone goes to your door and asks if you support them... What would you say?

It's easy to dismiss this issue by thinking they have the same freedom of speech as we do in the west, and they can have political opinions without any repercussion.

Same can be said about north Korea.

[-] AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 year ago

Hamas is the only group in this world standing up for the Palestinian people, so I would support them too, we're I locked up in that open air prison, my family and friends being constantly murdered for profit.