Maxwell Frost, the first Gen Z member of Congress, is one of the Democrats making it his business to understand the depth of the coverup happening in regard to the Epstein files, the ongoing preferential redactions of names of doers while exposing victims, and the dog and pony show he has to go through once he gets behind closed doors at the DoJ to actually view the unredacted files — which, unsurprisingly, are still redacted.

Here Rep. Frost is interviewed by Heather Cox Richardson, a historian in her own right, and like all of her interviews it is incisive and deeply informative.

Being Gen Z, Rep. Frost went in to the special DoJ facility to see the unredacted-but-actually-still-redacted files with a better grasp of technology than many of his older peers, and thus was readily able to navigate the bizarre technological obstructions that had been put in Congress' way before the first member ever showed up to see the files.

Rep. Frost describes this at length, and the patterns he sees in the redactions, and the length to which the DoJ has tried to prevent anyone from being able to "connect the dots" and get the larger picture of the entire ring, not only of pedophilia but of influence peddling and criminal conspiracy to evade any kind of justice.

I will try to attach a cleaned transcript later this evening (for those of us who prefer to read) but in the meantime you should know that pretty much everything that he describes are illegal acts in and of themselves, even before you get to specific violations of EFTA, perjury under oath, etc.

Congress, the legislative branch of government, is co-equal with the judicial and the executive, and wherever he and his fellow legislators are being denied full access to anything they request, and whatever lies/distractions/untruths they are being served in furtherance of that denial of access, are already unconstitutional and illegal from the outset.

Invidious link

TRANSCRIPT

The Epstein Files Coverup With Representative Maxwell Frost
Heather Cox Richardson

Richardson: I am thrilled today to have with me Representative Maxwell Frost, who is a representative from Florida's 10th district [Orlando]. He has represented the district since 2023, and he is the co-chair of the House Democratic Policy and Communications Committee. But we're going to be talking about something a little bit different today than what is in the news. It's probably what should be in the news, but we'll talk a little bit about the Epstein files today. So, Representative Frost, thank you so much for being here this morning.

Frost: Of course. Thanks for having me on. It's good to be here.

Richardson: So, I really wanted to talk to you about the Epstein files, in part because they seem to have fallen off the the people's radar screen because of everything else that's going on, but also because you and your staff did something really unusual when it came to looking at the Epstein files that are available, the ones that are available at the Department of Justice. Can you walk us through that?

Frost: Yeah. Well, for people who don't know, just to take us a few steps back, right? Donald Trump ran on releasing the Epstein files, right? It was one of the central points points of his campaign. It's how he got a lot of different communities off the internet, especially a lot of young people who've been looking into this, involved in his campaign, and it's something he talked about time and time again.

Okay. Then he gets elected. We don't hear anything about the Epstein files anymore.

And people start bringing it up. "Why aren't you talking about it? Why haven't you released it?"

And then we start hearing different things from different people, right? Kash Patel under oath says, you know, "We have nothing that shows that Jeffrey Epstein did anything criminal." I mean, that's what he said, right?

Then you have Pam Bondi who invites right-wing influencers to the White House and gives them these folders that they say they are the Epstein files, but they really weren't, and it was just something that they did.

So then in Congress, we start looking into it even more and say, "No, we do need these files released." Number one, you ran on it. But number two, more and more we're finding out that there is an elite group of billionaires and politicians and elite people in this country and around the world who were a party to these crimes.

When we talk about a two-tier justice system, we see in this country that, depending on how much money you have in your bank account or what your connections are, you might or might not have to face accountability for your crimes. And obviously, human trafficking, pedophilia, sexual abuse, assault, rape, these are all the things that have happened within— connecting to the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein.

So, fast forward, we get the bill passed to release the files. Pam Bondi and Donald Trump are engaged in the greatest cover up that we've seen in terms of the Epstein files. And they released a good amount of the files, but not all of them. But still, there are millions of files out there.

So, my team and I, you know, we knew we wanted to go into the Department of Justice to view the unredacted files because, in case your viewers haven't seen them, if you go on the website and you look at these files, there are just entire pages that are just black. And it just shows that they're really not interested in transparency.

In fact, a lot of these documents are documents that have to do with Donald Trump, that they have completely redacted or, in many cases, they put them online, people found them and then they [the DoJ] ripped them back off. They took them off the internet so people can't see them anymore.

So we said, look, there are people around the world who have been really following this closely for years, people who have a deep understanding of what Jeffrey Epstein did, and who have really good questions informed by their own research and their own work that they've done. So we took to the internet and we went — really, predominantly we went on Reddit — and we asked people, we told people, "Hey, I'm Congressman Maxwell Frost. I'm going to the Department of Justice tomorrow to look at the unredacted Epstein files. What should I be looking for? What specific file number should I look at?"

And it blew up. Millions of hits. Thousands of people writing in, calling into my office, commenting, not just saying, "Check this file out," you know, just a random file, but saying "Check this file out because I think it's connected to this and that, and this and that, and check out this other file as well."

And it really helped us put together specific file numbers that we should view, which really helped me going into the Department of Justice. I've been there twice so far. I'll be going again in the coming weeks.

Richardson: Well, so I want to get into what it's like to look at those files, but first of all, I think that was just brilliant, the whole idea of crowdsourcing the Epstein files. Did you find that people tended to group in different places that there were certain things that people thought were more important than other things?

Frost: 100%. You know, there's different groups of people who have been focused on different parts of this. For instance, we had a lot of people that were from Florida that submitted things having to do with Florida-specific parts of the case. Mar-a-Lago, the jail he went to. A lot of people don't realize this, that when Jeffrey Epstein went to jail, he was actually allowed to do what's called work release, right? When he's able to leave jail for a few hours a day to go to work. And he actually— there was an organization set up that he went to go work at and he was actually going there to sexually abuse and— somebody while he was in jail through work release. So we had many people who would send us information having to do with that, having to do with local Florida politicians.

We also had a lot of people who wanted us to look into the Zorro Ranch, which has been a big deal, as you know, recently. So there's different folks who I think have really focused in on very different parts of this. And you know, it makes me think a lot about my own dad who, after the JFK assassination, joined a group of local people in his community, and people across the country, that would just look into it, right? Research, try to figure out more information. I mean, there's in my house that I grew up in, there's a bookcase full of JFK books, of what happened on that day, and it's a very similar thing with this. And something my dad always tells me is, "We had groups of people who would become experts on specific things, on specific people." And I think it's very similar with the Epstein files, and with the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein, there are people who are experts on very specific things.

And it's really helped to me to go into the Department of Justice and not just look at [specific] files — like "What files do you think I should look at?" — but also understand what you're seeing, because when you're in that room you're just viewing unredacted files. Unless you understand what you're seeing, it's hard to navigate, right? It's millions of files. And I think in many ways, they really focused on redacting specific ones that keep you from connecting dots.

Richardson: So, I want to ask about a couple of things there. I do want to point out that what it reminds me of is less JFK than those people who are currently even chasing down the identities of people who have been found dead, that are Jane Does or John Does, and are able by extraordinary amounts of work to bring those families some closure by discovering who those people were. And I always wondered why QAnon didn't do that. Now, instead, we have people actually getting their hands in the files and I'm— you know, I agree with you, when you hear "millions of files," that's the sort of thing that makes historians' hair catch on fire, because you can't just start at number one and start turning pages.

Frost: Exactly.

Richardson: Can you tell us literally what it's like to go look at these files? And then I'd like to talk a little bit about why the Department of Justice has redacted certain things, and why you think that might be the case.

Frost: Yeah. So I'll tell you exactly what it's like. So first off, 24 hours before you want to go, you make an appointment with the Department of Justice. You pull up to the building which is in the NoMa area of Washington DC, maybe like 10, 15 minutes away from Capitol Hill. You go in through the front door, someone's waiting for you, expecting you. Usually a career Department of Justice person, someone who's been there for a long time. They walk you in, very cordial. You go upstairs, you go to a room where you're then handed off to the political people from the Department of Justice.

So people should understand, you have people who work in the government who've been there for a long time, and then you have people who are political appointees who are new, who are probably more aligned with the Trump agenda.

So then you're kind of handed off to a political appointee. They walk you over to a locker where you lock up all your electronics, phone, everything like that. And then you go into this room.

Now, a lot of people think it might be some grand thing. It's not. And it's actually just like a white room with four computers, two on each side of two tables facing each other. That's it.

There's a table on the corner where two people from the DOJ sit and kind of watch you. And then there's a tech guy who comes in and he signs you in with a very specific sign-in credential, which we'll get to in a minute because they're spying on us. So every person, when you sit down at the computer, you have a very specific sign-in credential to their kind of law library of Epstein files, which is an online thing, right? It's on the computer. So you sit down.

I'll be honest, I'm pretty quick on my feet with technology, so I was able to understand how to navigate it very quickly. But I sat in there with some other members who it took a lot of time to understand how to use it, because every time you had a question, they would have to go and get the tech guy who's in a different office, and you have to walk through every time and answer a question.

You only get two hours in the room.

So, what I started doing is kind of giving people tech lessons before they showed up, and giving them the basics of what they need to know so they don't waste time waiting for somebody to come and show them different things.

I mean, one of the big ones I'll tell you is when you click on a file, you might assume, right, it's unredacted already. No, actually, you have to click a different button in the toolbox, which is not— like there's not a button that says unredact. It's like kind of a like a small button that you click, and then you can see the unredacted one. So most people waste the first 15-20 minutes just looking at redacted stuff. So it's stuff like that, that can help you understand how to navigate this platform that has the files.

But I've got to tell you, there are so many files that you click unredact and it's the same thing [still redacted].

And in fact, what I wanted to do is have them side by side, so I could really understand how redact— how unredacted are the files. And the tech person came in and told me, "You're not able to do that in this system, you're not able to have it side by side," which is crazy.

I actually found a way to do it anyway by using a specific keystroke, and by doing that I was able to kind of ascertain that files connected to Donald Trump were still redacted, by and large, files that had nothing to do with victim names. And everything to do with exposing clients were completely redacted as well.

I'll tell you, a lot of people have reached out to me and said, "Maxwell, how come you haven't gone to the floor and read out a client list?" I haven't seen a client list. I've seen a list of co-conspirators, which Ro Khanna went to the floor and he read those names out loud. I went to the floor last week and read some of what I [found] out loud. But a lot of the co-conspirators we already know, right? It's like public information. A lot of these names are already out there.

The thing that people want is the list of clients of people who were part of this by, you know, paying for it, essentially. And I have not seen something like that unredacted yet. [There are] files where I feel like it could be hidden in it. For instance, there's a diary from one of the victims that you could redact anything that would give away the name of the [victim]. But why are entire pages redacted? Entire pages of the diary are redacted. Most of it's redacted. And conceivably there's some information in there that'll help us.

So that's just a little bit about that.

Richardson: Wait, stop. So, are you saying that even the files that the Department of Justice is showing to Congresspeople, claiming that they are unredacted, are still redacted? You can't unredact them yourself.

Frost: 100%. Not all of them, but a lot of them. And it'll be a lot of the ones that you think, "Let's go see it." For instance, one of the charging documents that came from the department of— or came from the [U.S.] Attorney, Alex Acosta, in West Palm, which is probably one of the most important things we can see, [is] completely redacted to us members of Congress.

They said, "You can go in and view everything unredacted." It's a lie.

And in fact, I asked the Department of Justice, because I had a whole thing pulled up that had to do with Donald Trump, and I said, "Why is this redacted?" And they said, "We received it that way." I said, "What do you mean you received it that way?" They said, "Well, we at the Department of Justice received it from the FBI, and so conceivably they gave it to us redacted. We just unredacted the things that we had redacted to the public," which means Kash Patel's FBI, of course, has redacted things having to do with Donald Trump. And having to do with clients, conceivably his friends, which is exactly what he told Marjorie Taylor Greene on the phone. "Stop this because my friends will be in trouble."

Richardson: So, you know, I confess I'm a little bit gobsmacked here, because when you just said, "This is the biggest cover up in US history," or maybe I'm misquoting you on that, the fact— I would agree with that, the fact that the Department of Justice is keeping from Congress the files that implicate a number of important people, including perhaps and I would actually go beyond perhaps, the President of the United States, is earth-shattering for our democratic system.

Frost: It is. And I did say I do believe this cover up is the biggest one that we've seen from a president in our country's history. Because it doesn't have to just do with the cover up itself, or the political pressure he put on members of his own party, but also has to do with the fact that they invited us in to view these unredacted files. Which, by the way, we compelled them to do through law damn near unanimously.

They broke the law by waiting an additional month to release it.

Then they also broke the law by redacting the names of billionaires and politicians when we told them, "We only want victim names redacted."

But it's not even just all that, Heather. It's also the fact that they spied on us as we were viewing the documents, not just to see what we were looking at and say, "Look at that," but to then use that on the political side to harm us politically for looking into it.

And what I mean is, for people who don't know, Pam Bondi was testifying to the House Judiciary Committee, where she was pummeled for the cover up of the Epstein files. And many of you saw the photo, that she had this binder. Like she had one binder per Democratic member, and it was like a— I call it— it was like a burn book, right? It was a bunch of material for her to use to embarrass the member, to speak back to the member in her defiant, you know, tone.

And we all saw that thing. A photographer caught a photo of one of the pages, and the page was a complete search history of Representative Pramila Jayapal's visit to the DoJ to view the unredacted files. A complete violation of the checks and balances and separation of branches.

And I just think that this cover up is an impeachable offense for Pam Bondi, 110%.

But that is the reason I say it's the biggest cover up we've seen, because it's not just a cover up. It's a cover up; a spying operation on members of Congress; and then a political operation that uses the information they got from the official government to harm them politically, which also is against the law, by the way.

Richardson: So, I want to get into that in a second, but one of the things that really interests me about the operation surrounding Epstein is the money. When you listed off the different ways in which there appear to have been crimes in those files, what I didn't hear you say was money laundering, or some of the other ways in which a number of people could be involved with the exchange of money. We know that Senator Ron Wyden is trying desperately to get files out of the Treasury about the movement of money through the banks surrounding Epstein, money going out as well as money going in, because that speaks to this web you're talking about. Have you seen anything like that in the files, or is that something you're interested in?

Frost: It is something I'm interested in. I'll tell you, you know, the two hours go by very fast and it— it's sometimes you go in on a specific subject or two. I find going in on one or two things is better than a ton. But one of the next visits I'm going to do, I'm going to focus on the bank.

So, everyone knows the House Oversight Committee. This is something we've been looking into. When we first met with the lawyers of a lot of the survivors, they told us something— they said something very direct. They said, "Go for the estate. Subpoena the estate." They said, "Also subpoena the banks, because what you won't be able to find in the Epstein files that the Department of Justice has, you might be able to follow the money." And this is really important.

So, we did send out two subpoenas at J.P. Morgan and Deutsche Bank, which are two of the primary banking institutions that were used by Jeffrey Epstein and his co-conspirators. But there's more that we need. Venmo transactions, Zelle transactions, I mean that we could go down the list of ways that we think money was both laundered, and hidden, to pay for services. There's also— it's just so deep, right?

There's also the question of people unknowingly moving money for this operation. And truth be told, there's a lot of folks that are considered co-conspirators that didn't— that actually didn't know what was going on, but they were used by Epstein and the real co-conspirators, and people that were making things. We could talk about whether it's a maid, or a driver, or this and that, that were in this.

A lot of folks don't understand how big this operation was. It wasn't just the island. The island's a big part of it, but it's his home. It's Mar-a-Lago. It's all these different things that tie it together. Which is part of the reason that we have to get to the bottom of this. It's not just about justice for the survivors, but it's about making sure it never happens again. And the fact of the matter is the whole— there's many entities that were involved in this.

Richardson: Well, but that speaks to where you started today, and that's that it is certainly about the survivors, but it's also about the idea of a predatory class that's not accountable to the law. And that seems to be what you're uncovering, right?

Frost: 100%. I mean, that is the basis of this entire thing. Because if we go back to when there was the first indictment, or when Jeffrey Epstein was first arrested for these very crimes, he was given a sweetheart deal by Alex Acosta, who by the way is full of crap. We deposed him for hours and hours and hours. Apparently, he didn't know anything that was going on in his office. And he's also very defiant. He believes— he hates the word sweetheart deal. He thinks he got the best he could get. He also stated to us that he didn't bring the survivors on the witness stand because he "didn't feel like they were going to be very credible" is what he said.

That is when all of this should have ended. The guy should have been held accountable. Everything should have been uncovered. But the fact of the matter is the dude served the year in jail, left, and continued to offend. And that's when things blew up even more. And the fact of the matter is, if Jeffrey Epstein wasn't a billionaire that was backed by elites, not just in this nation, but across the entire world, he would have faced justice in that moment. I promise you that. And I think because he had those connections, he was able to continue to do this.

And that's this two-tier justice system of rich billionaire elites doing whatever the hell they want and breaking all the laws in the world. I mean, and it's the same case on everything. You want to talk about theft, the biggest theft is the wage theft and white collar crimes, and these billionaires who are getting away with all of this. And so, of course, they're going to get away with [it], whether it's stealing money, or stealing people and selling people, they're getting away with it. And that's part of the reason why this is so important and uncovering this, is it's about integrity in our justice system, from A to Z. And if we don't uncover this and we don't get to the bottom of it, it will happen again. It could be happening right now. And I think that's important for people to understand.

Richardson: Well, and I think that you've put your finger on it there, that it is about accountability, but in a way it's an indictment of the development of the American justice system, and the American economic system, really for the last 30 years anyway, that has permitted the development of this sort of elite predatory group that could literally buy and sell people, which is sort of the ultimate, right?

Frost: Yeah. And what happens too, Heather, is that it's also connected. Because as they consolidate power in our economy, and as they continue to own everything — from the things that we watch, the news that we consume, the buildings that we live in, the cars that we drive — when fewer and fewer people have the keys to society, it is more likely that even when they commit the most heinous of crimes, that they are bailed out and protected. Because they own the keys to society.

And that's part of the reason why fighting the massive wealth inequality we have in this country is so important, is because that [inequality], in and of itself, does corrupt our justice system. And it puts in considerations, to politicians and people like that, that should not exist. I mean, how much money you have in the bank, the companies you own, all of that should not be a consideration when we're talking about you facing justice.

But when you have Alex Acosta, the U.S. Attorney who gave [Epstein] the sweetheart deal, who then years later becomes the Secretary of Labor for Donald Trump, you really realize that it's one big club and none of us are part of it. And I think it's really important for us to uncover what this is all about.

Richardson: Well, so that does raise the question now. It seems very clear from looking in from the outside, that the Department of Justice under Attorney General Pam Bondi is openly breaking the law. I believe this morning they said they're done, there will be no more Epstein files coming out. And— the— you know, that we're seeing stuff that is— is, you know — listen to me stammer, I just don't even know how to describe it.

What comes next? I mean, Bondi is due to testify before Congress under oath. [She] is sort of openly saying, "We're done. We're not going to follow any more the Epstein Transparency Act." What does it look like might happen to try and bring some of this to some sort of accountability?

Frost: Well, I believe Pam Bondi needs to be impeached. I think she has done multiple impeachable offenses, paramount of which is the cover up of this Epstein investigation, and her complete defiance of Congress. I think that is an impeachable offense.

Now, where do we go from here?

Well, first off, we've been trying to subpoena Pam Bondi on the oversight committee for damn near a year. We have not been able to do it. However, just a few days ago, as you just said, we were finally able to get a couple Republicans on, because— believe it or not, I think it's important for people to understand this, that part of the ways— and you're a historian — throughout history, authoritarians usually are not gifted legislators, and usually what they do doesn't have a ton of staying power, right? It's usually a legacy or something that you can work at undoing it and building back our democracy afterwards.

But the way that they rule has to do with people obeying in advance, and an opposition that believes there's nothing they can do. I mean, when the opposition says there's nothing we can do, you've given the authoritarian the real power that they want.

You know, I think about DEI. People would think there's probably a bunch of DEI laws Congress passed because all these companies are getting rid of it. Well, no. We passed zero laws having to do with that. There's zero law having to do with that. It is people obeying in advance, and giving power to the authoritarian before you've told them, "No, no, you're going to have to— you're going to have to do something about it."

So, the reason I bring this up is I know people feel hopeless in this moment, but do not buy into a politics of despair and feeling like there's nothing you can do because when we do that, we've lost half the battle already. And so, yes, we know we don't have the votes to subpoena. We knew we didn't have the vote to subpoena Kristi Noem. But Donald Trump— because of the way the country is falling apart, the economy is falling apart, wealth inequality is blowing up, politicians are starting in the Republican party to little by little defy Trump at different parts.

Now, is it because they woke up one morning and they felt like, "Let me be a good person?" No. It's because they're getting the polling numbers in their districts. They're getting the polling numbers and they're feeling like they might lose their job. So, we were able to get four Republicans to vote with us to subpoena Pam Bondi.

And that's really important, because having her in front of us testifying under oath, working at and covering on a national scale, this cover up is going to help us moving toward eventually impeaching her, which I think is something that will, knock on wood, hopefully if we're able to get in the majority, is something we need to move forward once we're in the majority. I think we could move it forward now as well, but I think in this hearing, looking at the way that the Republicans question her might help give us some insight as to whether or not we can move through impeachment and it be successful.

Look at what happened with Kristi Noem. She lost damn near— you know, a ton of Republicans in the Senate and in the House as well. And Trump— I think part of the reason Trump fired her is because he knew that impeachment was inevitable there. And so it just shows that we have to continue putting the pressure on. There's some Democrats who think that in this moment we need to lay low, be very risk adverse, and let them mess up, and people will run to our arms. I don't think that's true. I think in normal times, maybe that's true. We're not in normal times.

Richardson: Well, so what you're saying to people, it sounds like, is to keep the pressure on all of these issues, including the Epstein files.

Frost: 110%. And people, continue— definitely, know that all these issues are so deeply connected to a small group of billionaires and mega-corporations protecting themselves from the law, and trying to make as much money, and consolidate power. That is what the whole damn thing is about. From the Epstein files to the Big Beautiful Bill to everything.

Richardson: Well, I hope that you will come back at some point and talk to me about that, because that of course is the project near and dear to my heart, is the concentration of wealth and how one addresses that. But I want to thank you so much for being here. I feel like I've got so much better an idea of what's happening in that DoJ room, and what the files look like, and why it matters. So, thank you so much for coming, and good luck up there on the hill these days. It must be absolutely wild.

Frost: It's completely wild. But I'm really proud to be able to go to Congress and say I represent Orlando, Florida and be a loud progressive voice from the South. So, thanks for having me on. Thanks for all your work. Thanks everybody.

Richardson: They're lucky to have you. Thank you everyone for being here, and I'll talk to you soon.