Fuck. Even if I never play EA games they might still share this anti cheat with other companies. X_x aaaaaghhh
But to be fair, if a company partners with EA their game is probably shit.
Fuck. Even if I never play EA games they might still share this anti cheat with other companies. X_x aaaaaghhh
But to be fair, if a company partners with EA their game is probably shit.
If you need kernel access because you don't trust me not to cheat, I don't really want to play your game.
Blame the cheaters.
I mean, I also don't care about cheaters because I'm not a competitive gamer. So this isn't for me, anyway. Games should be fun and relaxing, and if you're playing for money, then it should be on the people selling the product to monitor player behavior, the way any other pro sports league does.
I used to be a competitive gamer, but I didn't care about cheaters either because...well, just because someone has cheats doesn't mean they're good at the game. For the most part I could tell when someone was cheating, but I could still out-gun the cheat and win.
Not everyone can do that of course, but it's fun to see people cheat and still lose.
While it is not realistic to eliminate all cheaters, what I will say is that cheaters can easily ruin a game, especially one that has lasting consequences such as, for example, Tarkov. Which I did end up stopping playing due to cheaters.
In addition, if you start seriously questioning whether you lost due to the other person's skill or their cheats after every engagement, then it erodes the game's foundation and things start falling apart. You can't do the process of analyzing what you did wrong or could do better, because you might have done the right thing and just lost due to a cheater. You can't be confident that you could have gotten good enough to win that engagement next time, because it might just be a cheater and be impossible. Strategy goes out the window because you cannot assume that the other person acted rationally in a non-cheaty context. It subverts the rules of the game that you agreed to. Like when you're playing chess and the other player keeps knocking over your queen with their finger. It simply stops being fun. The game turns into something else
I can't understand why you have so many downvotes while being spot on.
Yes!! They could just do holistic anti-cheat data analysis instead.
Look, I don't enjoy EA, they've killed several of my franchises, but what we shouldn't do is demonize them for attempting to migrate to Linux. If a huge gaming company is taking Linux seriously it's something we should celebrate. It means we're making an impact
Absolutely. Valve took Linux seriously and it's helped Linux gaming immensely. But you can argue a few things - Valve are private and can still do what they want without an obligation to shareholders. Linux gives them better control of the software on their own devices, so they can tailor the experience exactly how they want. Investing in proton made it so people are willing to buy and use these devices, as the game library becomes nearly identical to windows.
A company like EA, a monolith at this point and historically one of the most profit driven, greedy, arguably scummy companies in gaming, if they're investing in Linux support that means they see dollars and other companies will follow suit. They're specifically looking at their anti cheat software according to this picture which would bring in their competitive shooters, the type of game that is largely missing on Linux.
If their anti cheat supports Linux, others like Easy anti cheat may push to support Linux, and developers like facepunch have even less of a leg to stand on when it comes to ignoring Linux. Unless EA does something like "You must be using our new EA Linux distro for our anti cheat to work" I can't see this being a bad thing.
They aren't being demonized for 'taking Linux seriously.' They are being demonized for the horns, forked tongue, spade-tipped tail, ichorous blood, and subservience to satan that are everything they have done before now. When the guy who moved in at No.1 and raped their daughter, then moved in at No.3 and raped their daughter, and then did it again at No.5 is showing up at your house at No.7, it might be called 'great news' that someone is finally interested in finally renting out that room you've had available for the last several years, but if you let them in, they're just going to rape your daughter. It's what they do.
I don't think that people are demonizing them for attempting to migrate to Linux.
I'm pretty sure (because of my own reaction to this news, as well as the other comments) that it's to do with people's dislike of kernel-level anti-cheat and EA's attempt to bring that to Linux.
The problem is, this may actually NOT about anti-cheat. Just like, age verification is justified by "child protection", anti-cheat may be a gateway to gradually take away the control over the kernel.
As some other people said, if they want effective anti-cheat, why not make it server-side? Maybe I worry too much, but the history tells us these companies likely not act in good faith.
I'm willing to celebrate.. if it's a net positive in the end. Linux gamers being able to play big titles, or game with Windows-using friends is good. Having to run DRM/adware/rootkit "anti-cheat", subscriptions and dark patterns is very bad.
My outlook on the modern games industry is very low overall and I don't see how to fix it. If I could do anything I'd instead promote and invest into "open source" games (software freedom respecting games).
Exactly! This is exactly what we want, more big players on linux.
Of course the kernel level anti-cheat is another thing that needs to be addressed, but a big company acknowledgig the importance of linux is a huge victory to me.
Speak for yourself. I'd rather shit companies no matter how big or small not be a part of the Linux ecosystem. Do I want development absolutely but not at the sacrifice of core values. EA is a shit company. Full Stop. They have nothing good to provide.
But you can still choose to not interact with their software. What's the problem?
The kernel is the brains of the any Linux OS. It has access to every aspect of your system. Which is why they (EA) wants access. I would like to think you wouldn't put a device in your brain to have some 3rd party to monitor your entire body for bad actors.
Having this level of access to your system would allow them to see all the processes and files, scan them and create a fingerprint that's linked to your account. With the levels of violations that all governments are conducting in our lives it would be a small feat for EA to divulge this fingerprint for not only their own profits, directed ads and marketing, but anyone who would ask including government entities.
That is only one level. One other aspect is performance hits. Adding this kernel level monitoring will also take clock cycles away from your real needs. Slowing down and interrupting the functions of your system potentially breaking things. This along with adding attack vectors for other nefarious actors to penetrate your system and take full control.
You are correct I do have a choice not to use their poorly implemented code. And I definitely will never use it. The final point I will add is if this were to happen it becomes a slippery slope for other companies to add their own kennel level "security" code. All you have to do is look at any other system. Next thing you know the last light of OS freedom will be extinguished.
Not to forget that EA is iirc getting bought by the Saudis so government entities would already be involved from the beginning
New rootkit is about to drop. 🥰
The same EA that was recently sold to and is now part-owned by an investment firm owned by Jared Kushner and with ties to Donald Trump? Yeah, that's not getting kernel access to any of my systems.
Is it morally correct to apply for the job while deeply under qualified for it and lie on your app to ensure they make no progress at maximum cost? Yes, obviously.
While I agree that it’s morally correct let’s also not be under any delusions that a company as garbage as EA isn’t using ai to screen applications. That makes your applying not only a waste of your time but also resources that are being sucked up by ai
Friendly reminder that kernel-level anti-cheat can and will be circumvented.
Any game fairness improvement that it provides will be temporary, but whatever malware it allows onto your system (either deliberately or through bugs exploited by third parties) will likely last until you reinstall the whole OS. Depending on the type of malware, it could even persist for the life of the hardware.
Lol, LMAO even.
It's so sweet of them to think that I don't play their games because I play on linux and not because I want EA software in my computer as much as I want to drink a shot of arsenic.
Guys guys guys- The evil corporation is getting on board. Things really ARE that bad.
Perhaps I'm naive about the programming of video games, but why isn't anti-cheat for live service games handled on the server side? We already send mouse movement and keystrokes to the server to display in multi-player environments, why not just do anomaly detection on top of that data stream?
It feels like anti-cheat isn't my problem to solve, or to accommodate for.
If the game state of every player at any time can be simulated entirely on server then yes, to some degree. This isn't the case for many games that have some degree of client authoritativeness, like Apex Legends. As the other poster mentioned, this doesn't eliminate seeing through walls still, or other cheats that expose game state that players can't normally see but are required for the game to work.
If all games were streamed over the network, like in GeForce Now, then we would perhaps require far less client anticheat.
This is the real truth and why people clowned Apex into the ground ruining their franchise.
i'm a proponent of server-side anticheat, but there is a few reasons games do it client side.
Seeing players through walls can be solved in other ways, though. At least partially. One fix is to only draw models that the player has line-of-sight to, often with out of LOS models drawn behind the camera. Then, pop them back into place a frame before they are expected to be in LOS. That eliminates a lot of the advantages of wall hacks and model hacks. (Model hacks add a giant stick out of the front of player faces so you can see what they are looking at and, from the size/colour/whatever, how far away they are.)
Server side, you can also measure reaction time net latency to determine overly consistent or superhuman reaction times. If players aim to headshots in under 0.3s consistently, then they're hacking.
And rootkits can be beat anyway, so they're pointless, like by ruining a VM or by injecting the cheat at the bootloader, before the kernel.
And there are hardware man-in-the-middle cheats, with video capture cards sending a video stream to a companion computer running an image processing model that injects mouse commands back to the host computer.
I could keep going. There are so many ways. Trusting the client is impossible, trying to force it is unethical (requiring rootkits), and it doesn't even stop cheating! Just give up and move to server-side detection, or go back to community servers that can self moderate with human admins.
And, imho, don't even ban the cheaters—instead, flag their account to be exclusively placed into cheater-only games (with bots for filler, if needed to keep queue times roughly matched to avoid player detection). ngl, younger me (who had more time for this kind of thing) would have loved the challenge of trying to out-hack other players using cheats.
good points. yeah, client side anticheats are still vulnerable and I think they're mostly just popular out of pure laziness. Making a good server side anticheat takes a lot of thought into what is and isn't possible so it's easier for a company to just slap on some slop and get 80% of the way there.
in valorant's case, their anticheat is also a great date collection software to beam every possible identifier straight to John Data or whoever it ends up with.
Nah, keep that shit off my PC. If i cant play a game due to not having a proprietary backdoor installed then im fine playing other games i can.
Hopefully, Linux developers will create a tool to blacklist DRMed products from being installed. I don't want to unwittingly install Enigma, Denuvo, Easy Anti-Cheat, and other foul things onto my machine.
No thanks EA. You're on my never buy list.
Incredibly happy to see the option, but I ain't gonna run that shit.
Wasn’t windows on arm designed specificly to break this capability? Linux won’t ever let it in but for windows I’m pretty sure this was one of this ARM things.
I'm still not gonna buy games with anti-cheat, EA.
Ew. Do not want.
I don't want EA games on Linux. They can stay on Windows for all that I care.
I'm looking forward to it. Not because I will buy more EA games, but because it will remove one of the few barriers left for even wider Linux adoption.
I don't and wouldn't really play the kind of games that use it, but nice. Though also I don't know what running this on proton means. Kernel level is not nice.
I don't believe there is a viable path for kernel-level anti-cheat on Linux (thank god). What most developers have done is enable normal anti-cheats on Linux, even if they use kernel-level ones on Windows. This is the path they seem to be going down.
Ever since CrowdStrike, I'm a bit amazed Microsoft hasn't taken a hard stance on the gaping security hole that is kernel-level anti-cheat. It's bonkers such is expected or even allowed just to play a game.
I'm not that surprised. It's hard to make a harmful practice stop when it's backed by so much money.
Well, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Still not planning on buying any of their games, but if this move encourages more overall Linux developments... Well, we can't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Will they finally make their games work on Linux...
Apex Legends. The game was working on Linux before they they took it away. On https://areweanticheatyet.com/ I see it uses Easy Anti Cheat and Hyperion. No word on Javelin. So looks like games using Hyperion wouldn't still be supported? The list of Javelin games on https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/EA_Javelin shows that I am not much interested into those games. It's for the most part Battlefield and sports games. Well maybe I could try out Battlefield 6 someday, that is probably best game from this list.
This looks like primarily Windows on AArch64 then maybe Linux support later.
I'd be more interested in Linux IntelX86-Amd64 support for stuff like the SteamDeck. Windows on Arm is borderline non-existent
Um, yay? 🤢
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