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DeGoogled phones, made in Europe: Fairphone, Volla, SHIFTphone, Punkt – a full review. (tuta.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago by tavostator@feddit.org to c/buyfromeu@feddit.org

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[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 19 points 3 weeks ago

I've had my hands on Fairphones and SHIFT phones. Build quality seems similar.

I'd still get a Fairphone, as they put a lot of effort into open source and being part of the community. They also seem to make slightly more robust devices.

No idea for how long Shift guarantee updates, but Fairphone guarantees updates for many years. Last I checked it was eight years.

BTW, I recently got myself a USB-C charger from Fairphone and the build quality is really good. No doubt it will still work in two years and longer. The price is also decent.

[-] pantherina@feddit.org 3 points 3 weeks ago

Fairphone absolutely is important and may have driven the long update span of phones. But note that because they were the first, they didnt use a secure smartphone SOC in their phone but an IOT one, lacking any secure element for example. Cracking that phone is not hard for people with the knowledge.

Also their firmware and software updates are often far behind upstream, which has obvious security implications.

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 2 points 3 weeks ago

Citation needed.

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[-] quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 3 weeks ago

Of all of those, Punkt is the only one with a headphone jack.

[-] H3ll1@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 3 weeks ago

Thanks for this! I won't change my Phone (Samsung S21 FE) for as long as it's working but was looking at Fairphone and Volla/Jolla as Candidates. Good to have a comparsion.

[-] BurnedDonutHole@ani.social 10 points 3 weeks ago

I get it it's hard to make a good product and sell it cheaply, but at these price points, with the hardware there are providing, installing a custom ROM is the cheapest and arguably the best way to de-google.

Some of these are selling you the 5 years old hardware with today's flagship killer phone prices. Unless there is a big change in the Android phone market, these prices for these devices will never be justified in my eyes. Not even for the native Linux experience.

[-] Teppichbrand@feddit.org 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

We don't have to settle for just one option. There will always be status-people who buy a brand-new Tesla for 50.000€ because they can afford it. And there are the second hand EV-people, who pay like 10.000€ and still make a difference. Same with de-googled smartphone. Let them buy expensive if they can. I love my de-googled Pixel 4a I bought for like 75€ years ago. Both types are part of the solution.

[-] BurnedDonutHole@ani.social 3 points 3 weeks ago

I agree.～(つˆ0ˆ)つ｡☆

[-] ChrisDoeser@feddit.org 3 points 3 weeks ago

To be fair buying a /e/OS fairphone also directly helps the development of these alternative systems. Therefore I think its justified to pay a bit more if you've got the money to spare.

[-] pantherina@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

That is a vast oversimplifications. Custom Android builds either rely on reverse engineered drivers, or vendor kernels, or mostly undocumented drivers and custom kernel patches.

Custom "ROMs" are often very insecure, as they use the outdated stock vendor kernel of the original OS, as it is so customized. Not always, but often.

Then you have firmware, which is responsible for a ton of tasks on Android phones, way more importantly than on a PC. There is an entire separate, proprietary chip in there, connecting to sensible and insecure networks like 2G and 3G (the modem/baseband).

I found this article to explain the situation well

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[-] ChrisDoeser@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

In the case of Fairphone you support the further development of /e/OS also financially. Otherwise the alternative Operating Systems will never be able to fully mature.That alone can justify the purchase of a phone in my eyes (if you've got the money to spare).

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[-] dudesss@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 weeks ago

Canada! Canada! Canada! Canada!

We're waiting over here homies. Give us something. Give us anything.

[-] spipau@feddit.org 8 points 3 weeks ago

I use /e/OS on my Fairphone 3+ since more than 3 years and can only recommend it!

[-] Konstant@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Can you install apps from the Google store? Are there apps that refuse to work on it?

[-] spipau@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

You can install PlayStore apps from the App Lounge which connects anonymously. Most apps simply work, always depends on what you use. Apps such as Plexus or Sapio can be used to see if apps work

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[-] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 6 points 3 weeks ago

Why no mention of https://iode.tech/ ? They offer new and refurbished phones with deGoogled OS, including Fariphone and SHIFT. They have a very nice anti tracking software integrated into the OS that doesn't require VPN running which is a big plus. I've been using it for couple of years before I switched to Graphene OS and definitely will consider switching back when my phone dies. Regular updates, couple of nice feature Graphene OS doesn't have (pattern unlock, configurable shortcuts, system backups). I'm pretty much sticking with Graphene because when I got my phone iode wasn't supporting it yet and now I'm to lazy to switch back.

[-] jdr8@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

What about SailfishOS?

I use it and it’s really nice.

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

That's just some Linux userspace with an Android container and an Android kernel. It is mostly still Android kernel and drivers.

I don't expect them to support devices for very long.

[-] jdr8@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago

Hmm… are you sure?

In their docs they say it uses the Linux Kernel and bridges other Linux libraries including those used in Android.

It does provide a way to install Android apps in a sandbox.

They have their own hardware phones and do support some Sony Xperia phones, which is the one I have.

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 3 points 3 weeks ago

It uses the kernel from the SoC vendor, for example Qualcomm, for the Xperia 10 III.

This requires libhybris to get the drivers working with a non-Android userland.

This in turn means the phone can only be updated as long as Qualcomm continues patching the kernel.

And this is why you run an outdated kernel once Qualcomm drops support, which will happen quickly. It's the same for other SoC vendors. They are in the business of selling SoCs, not supporting them.

Mainline support solves that. SailfishOS can also be built with a mainline kernel.

I am in fact working on mainlining the Xperia 10 III. Once I'm done, you can flash an image with a mainline kernel and continue updating the kernel until the phone breaks, not until Qualcomm stops caring.

[-] jdr8@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Very interesting. Yes I run Sailfish on a Xperia 10 III.

But was not aware of the kernel being supported by the SoC.

Seems like you’re involved in an interesting project.

I’m quite curious about it.

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 3 points 3 weeks ago

Still early days, but hopefully I'll at some point have it all working.

This is my current progress: https://git.erebion.eu/forgejo/erebion/pdx213-temp

Next step would be upstreaming some patches to the kernel, I just need to find the time.

Someone more skilled and knowledgeable than me in mainlining could probably get most of the remaining things done in a couple days, but I need to read a lot of docs and try out a lot of things.

[-] jdr8@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

That is some impressive stuff, well done!

I’m a software developer but nowhere near kernel stuff.

I do have a curiosity to learn more about kernel development.

Definitely will check it out later.

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 2 points 3 weeks ago

It's not that hard, the hardest part is finding the right info, I don't even know C. I just enable the components that have drivers and leave the rest until someone writes the driver. :)

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[-] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 weeks ago

Sailfish is based on MeeGo and Moblin and itself has been around for almost 15 years.

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[-] Glitterkoe@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

Definitely not mostly Android. It's their own Linux distro/flavour with an "Android compatibility layer" like Waydroid and (gradually open sourced) system components. Ubuntu Touch has a similar approach and I believe postmarketOS as well. I really hope that Jolla's next community device brings them some more traction and subsequent development velocity. I tried installing SailfishOS on my Fairphone 5 but it is not (yet) a polished setup experience from first boot. If they can polish that, I think it's a great OS to facilitate a gradual move from privacy-hell. It would allow absolute must-have apps to live in locked down Android compatibility mode while there's no viable alternative and more and more of your data living in a tracking-free OS.

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

libhybris literally uses an Android comtainer to bridge over Android kernel drivers from the SoC vendor to the Linux (non-Android) userland.

EDIT: postmarketOS has a mainline strategy, you could create a downstream port, but ultimately their goal is to create strong mainline support for many devices.

[-] Glitterkoe@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

AFAIK they offer a way to port their OS to Android devices by re-using the drivers built for Android when building a SailfishOS image for non-native hardware. I personally wouldn't call that "it's mostly Android", but that might be where we have different interpretations. Your initial comment came across as if it was a glorified launcher or a deGoogled Android. If I interpreted that wrongly, my bad. Cheers

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 2 points 3 weeks ago

I've changed wording from "mostly still Android" to "mostly still Android kernel and Android drivers", I agree, might have been a bit unclear.

Anyway, libhybris requires running half an Android system in a container, so I believe it'd be fair to say it is... half an Android system and a somewhat regular Linux userland with a proprietary UI.

It's important to know that it can only be updated as long as the SoC vendor provides updated kernel sources.

It'd take months to rebase it onto a new kernel. Just trying to port the drivers would take more time than mainlining. But once you keep things upstream, it suddenly becomes much easier to maintain.

That's where mainlining comes in.

For example, I am mainlining the Xperia 10 III to make sure it does not become obsolete trash and can still ne used in a couple years:

https://git.erebion.eu/forgejo/erebion/pdx213-temp

[-] alfredon996@feddit.it 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Nope, in fact, Jolla with SailfishOS is the only one among those mentioned that uses an OS independently developed.

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[-] cauthon117@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 weeks ago

Writing this on the Volla Quintus. It's a nice phone. Best features are the springboard and the boot manager.

[-] wdx@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

do you use any banking apps? if yes, are there any difficulties?

[-] cauthon117@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 weeks ago

I use two banking apps and an NFC payment app and all of them work without any problems. You just enable micro g and when you're done, you disable it again.

[-] Alberat@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

responding on a pixel 3a running android 15 via lineageos

[-] pantherina@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

Uhm your phone is EOL since a very long time. I hope you never turn off airplane mode

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[-] pferd@feddit.org 3 points 3 weeks ago

I wish one of them would be supported by grapheneos. Imo the best privacy os but only available on pixel devices

[-] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 weeks ago

Any idea how hood the cameras are on these? I specifically got myself a (used) xiaomi 13t for the Leica optics, and will probably not change before it dies (because of money) except if I can sell it and switch ofc.

[-] BenjiRenji@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

Fairphone camera is usually very good with enough light. Only issue is low light.

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[-] dieTasse@feddit.org 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I used CalyxOS on Fairphone (still waiting for the new one) and that was a good experience. I had completely degoogled main profile and then work profile with microG for things that doesn't really work without google services or for apps that I simply needed but didn't want running all the time. And the work profile was off most of the time. It was a good balance for me. Now I am waiting and using LineageOS, but will jump on the CalyxOS bandwagon once they are back. Also prior to CalyxOS I waited for any ROM, I had just pure FairphoneOS (just an android) and honestly, Fairphone should do something about their software because there were a lots of bugs, some were not solved for a long time and when custom ROMs became available, they were better tuned than the FairphoneOS. I mean seriously, good hardware bad software...

[-] nshibj@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

CalyxOS is great, I hope it comes back strong. If you want to try another degoogled OS based on Lineage with flexibility to install/uninstall any system app (like microG) and a built-in tracker and ad blocker I'd recommend IodéOS: https://iode.tech/