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The Grace Hopper Celebration is meant to unite women in tech. This year droves of men came looking for jobs.

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[-] carl_dungeon@lemmy.world 193 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This really sounds like a failure of the organizers more than anything- first off, lumping in non-binary is a catch all that anyone will take advantage of, and second and most importantly, everyone was complaining about long lines. Long lines means lots of people. Lots of people means the event over-sold their $600-$1000 tickets.

Sounds like the event organizers were more interested in making money than helping women in tech- women would have had the same problems had it been 100% women.

Edit: I’m not bashing non binary people, I’m just saying that people will take advantage of it, that’s all.

[-] LinuxSBC@lemm.ee 90 points 1 year ago

Including non-binary people was not the problem. Relevant quote:

"AnitaB.org, the nonprofit that runs the conference, said there was “an increase in participation of self-identifying males” at this year’s event. The nonprofit says it believes allyship from men is important and noted it cannot ban men from attending due to federal nondiscrimination protections in the US."

They identified as male, not non-binary, and the event allowed men to come.

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[-] Neato@kbin.social 135 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

ITT: men who can't ever admit they might be the problem. So many excuses here it's pathetic.

edit: I love the "not all men" and "not me". As always, it's not all men. But it's enough. And the men here getting so defensive really prove the point. And before anyone gets into it, it's not really the sex or gender. It's the societal expectations and allowances that encourage men to engage in abusive shit like we see in the article here. I.e. the patriarchy and those who support it.

[-] sudneo@lemmy.world 78 points 1 year ago

Problem for what?

I exist, I need a job to live, I have job, I try my best not to be an asshole, I fight (and vote) for a better society, for social and civil rights.

Why exactly I - since I am a man I feel included in your statement - should be THE problem?

[-] Nindelofocho@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

seriously this happens a lot people will go off and say word for word that a whole group of people are evil and bad when its a subset of a group. When called on it they may simply say that its not talking about the group as a whole or “not for you” if they dont genuinely believe the whole group is bad (which is wrong and discriminatory)

The issue is the discrepancy of what you say in relation to what you mean will lead others to believe in what you say but not what you mean and this harms those just trying to survive normally.

[-] LPThinker@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

The first comment literally wasn't talking about a whole group of people, they were talking about the men in this thread leaving comments that illustrate the exact reason why this space created by and for women and non-binary people should be about and for the benefit of women and non-binary people.

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[-] 01011@monero.town 45 points 1 year ago

Can you expound on that statement?

It sounds as if the organizers were too quick to take the $650 from attendees and those willing to pay were very eager to pony up the cash in the hope of networking.

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[-] GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

There's nothing more pathetic the a Mens Rights Activist. Shame to see so many of them here.

[-] ComradeKhoumrag@infosec.pub 37 points 1 year ago

I don't support the actions of men in this article, but all gender roles are toxic, and there are societal expectations of men that are genuinely toxic.

Again, women have gotten the shit end of the stick for muuuuch longer. I don't want to minimize that. But saying mens rights activists are pathetic?

60% of male suicides report no off behavior from the man before commiting suicide. This suggests it isn't a mental illness causing the problem, but circumstances in their life cause them to kill themself because they truly see no other solution or way out for the predicament they're in.

How come men are twice as likely to be homeless than women?

Why isn't it socially acceptable for men to take on the "care taker roll" like a stay at home dad or a nurse?

I could go on, but I don't want to make this a rallying cry for men in a thread about a tech conference for women. I get meninsts is like a men's rights group that was created to troll feminists, but men's rights and woman's rights should both just try and be egalitarian

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[-] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 128 points 1 year ago

I like how this comment section highlights why a job fair specifically not for cis men is needed lol

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[-] sudneo@lemmy.world 125 points 1 year ago

How dare workers in (potentially desperate?) need of a job to look for jobs. They are men and belonging to that category automatically makes them rich and privileged. The working class should be united against common enemies, not divided because of gender. While it's obvious that women in tech are discriminated, alienating fellow victims, even if males, is not the answer to the problem.

Capital really won the class war...

[-] bjornsno@lemm.ee 150 points 1 year ago

I know you didn't mean it like this, but the result from this line of thinking is that we only try to put women on equal footing with men in tech when it's convenient for men because times are good. Which in turn means we never put women on equal footing because the needs of men always come first.

Put differently women have to deal with being women in tech on top of times being desperate, men only have to deal with times being desperate. Things like this are why spaces like these are necessary in the first place, and if you break them down at the first discomfort you're not a working class hero fighting the capital, you're tearing down women and setting everyone back.

[-] sudneo@lemmy.world 71 points 1 year ago

Gender is absolutely not the only nor the most important discriminating factor in tech. Being a foreigner and, probably most commonly, being old is an extreme disadvantage in tech. Similarly, a woman coming from a wealthy family might be a privileged compared to a man coming from a poor background (which translates into lower access to education, resources, etc.).

Look at the video in the article, and tell me you don't notice some commonalities among the men in the queues.

I see mostly foreigners, who most likely have no network of support, and need a job to maintain a VISA before getting kicked out of the country. Are they in a better or worse position compared to a local woman? Does it even make sense to start asking these questions?

I want to challenge this vision where discriminations are only looked at through the lens of gender division. This is shortsighted because discrimination on the workplace is extremely diverse and it exists for the benefit of those same sponsors of this event.

[-] andros_rex@lemmy.world 84 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As a teenage girl into coding, I was treated like absolute shit. If I made a mistake in my botball code, it was because I wasn’t good at coding. If a boy made a mistake in their botball code, then it was something that the other boys would help them debug. I remember it being assumed I just wouldn’t be able to figure out what structs were, so the boys running the botball code didn’t teach me. In college, any group project was an opportunity for boys to try to fuck me.

As a trans man, someone who has experienced life as both a man and woman in STEM, there are massive barriers to women. It’s invisible to you because you haven’t lived through it.

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[-] Zerfallen@lemmy.world 54 points 1 year ago

No one is saying gender is the only point of discrimination, but this specific event is focused on gender issues.

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[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 36 points 1 year ago

I've had a lot more foreign male colleagues than I have female colleagues. Where are you getting you information about who's disadvantaged?

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[-] retrieval4558@mander.xyz 28 points 1 year ago

You need to do a lot of reading about intersectionality and intersectional feminism. You're right about there being multiple possible systemic disadvantages because of someone's identity (gender, sexual orientation, race, nationality, disability, etc) but the answer to that is not to sit around going NUH UH THIS GROUP HAS IT WORSE. Everyone needs uplifting, and it just so happens that this event was for women. If you think there needs to be a foreigners in tech job fair, go do one.

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[-] athos77@kbin.social 39 points 1 year ago

They are men and belonging to that category automatically makes them rich and privileged.

Privilege doesn't mean that things are easy or automatic, just that (in general) people with privilege don't have the same systemic negatives that those without it have. And it's very indicative of privilege for the men who went to this thing, which was built up over a number of years by a community specifically to benefit the members of that community, to just assume they had the rights of a community member without ever having contributed to that community. Something exists, and therefore they are automatically entitled to it.

I can have sympathy for people desperate for jobs, and I can understand class warfare, and yet ... once again something that women and enbys spent years and decades building up, is ruined because cishet men decided it was more 'convenient' for them to invite themselves into spaces not designed for them.

And yes, I do get frustrated with men not understanding issues of consent, in all of it's different aspects.

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[-] CaptainPedantic@lemmy.world 97 points 1 year ago

Tangentially related, but are job fairs even worth it? In my limited experience, you wait in a long line for someone to tell you to apply online. I was better off getting a list of employers who were attending, and then looking through each of their websites.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think I figured it out... only rarely you'd get immediate interviews, but the idea is you get LinkedIn contacts to chat with later and industry insight, and something to tell recruiters/hiring managers that you did, but you dress it up in a way that shows you look for opportunity like "I met members of [industry/company] at a recruiting conference in [town]". I found industry conferences to be more useful than jobfairs in this respect, but those can be a little to a lot expensive.

Otherwise it's pretty much just being told to scan QR codes, business cards and maybe getting a couple plastic cups and pens.

All in all I say job hunting is such an awful game.

[-] tony@lemmy.hoyle.me.uk 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No. Mostly you run around collect business cards and then go online to apply for the jobs.. that you could have done without going to the job fair in the first place.

TBH It's a huge red flag if a recruiter wants upfront payment with no guarantee at the end of it (or even if they 'guarantee' one). If the recruiters are so desperate for someone they want to organise a job fair, they can bloody well pay for it themselves.

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[-] endhits@lemmy.world 85 points 1 year ago

This comment section is a perfect example of how capitalists have won the class war. Such hatred for half of the population of the world that people seem to have forgotten that people need jobs to survive.

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[-] _s10e@feddit.de 68 points 1 year ago

Ignoring gender, are job fairs overrun by job seekers now? Is it that bad?

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[-] psychothumbs@lemmy.world 67 points 1 year ago

Glad to see federal anti-discrimination law working to prevent these conference organizers from being as sexist as they wanted to be.

[-] Crisps@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

If companies were looking for applicants there, it is clear discrimination.

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[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 45 points 1 year ago

Most of the problems mentioned in the article seemed to be problems with the convention organization and not the attendees.

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[-] Pxtl@lemmy.ca 43 points 1 year ago

I can't wait for this to be posted on Hacker News, get 5 of the worst techbro libertarian nonsense comments, get 3 angry SJW replies to those techbros, then dang shouts at the SJWs about tone, rate limits them, then flags the article off the site.

/it me, I'm the SJW.

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[-] Rentlar@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If we had proper public supports for people between jobs, students and immigrants looking to find a way to live and/or not get kicked out of the country, this wouldn't be a problem.

The whole job hunt feels like a rat race, it's practically common recruiter advice to apply for stuff that you don't qualify for on paper, send out as many applications as possible and take every chance you can get. So I can see how people can apply these ideas to participate in spaces where they aren't encouraged to apply.

This is compounded by the pressure put on people to even live without income for short periods of time.

I'd say I'm privileged, yet it took me a year of looking to land something in my field. I had money saved up and enough supports to keep costs at a minimum, I'm aware I'm lucky I was even able to be in this circumstance.

We need smart and capable women, trans and nb people in the workforce, and we need resources to overcome the barriers they face. I'm just saying that it's not easy, even without such barriers and also with comforts that are not afforded to many.

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Organizers expressed frustration. Past iterations of the conference have “always felt safe and loving and embracing,” said Bo Young Lee, president of advisory at AnitaB.org, in a LinkedIn post. “And this year, I must admit, I didn’t feel this way.”

“This group was really accepting until all these unacceptable people showed up”

[-] LPThinker@lemmy.world 75 points 1 year ago

This is such a brain dead take. The conference exists to support a group that has been and is actively discriminated against and harassed in the tech industry. All the men crashing the event care not at all about the conference, its mission, and its participants - they’re just desperate to find a job. And while I absolutely sympathize with people suffering unemployment, it’s really shitty (and sadly so typical and indicative of the problem) to flood a space designed for women and non-binary people, completely disregarding them in the race to get ahead.

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[-] mplewis@lemmy.globe.pub 41 points 1 year ago

Dude, have you worked in tech? At all? It’s already horrendously overrun with men who step outside their space and make everyone’s day worse. I don’t begrudge women for being frustrated that it’s happening at the Grace Hopper conference.

[-] randon31415@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago

I have to sayings I give to my students.

In times of high unemployment: "Be overqualified for the job you are applying to. If you are not, you competition will be."

In times of low unemployment: "If the recruiter picks a name out of a hat among those who applied, your chances are 1 divided by the number of applicants. Find the average number of applicants that apply to jobs you want - that is the average number of applications you have to send out before you find a job. (E.g.: Online WFH jobs with good pay sometimes get thousands of applications)."

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[-] I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago

From the title I thought this was an article about men driving vehicles into people at the job fair. I was slightly aghast that the discussion was only about whether or not it's ok to have a job fair for women in tech.

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[-] Trev625@lemm.ee 34 points 1 year ago

Purely commenting on the TikTok and not the article:

"... career fair aimed at women and non-binary tech workers..." and then there's a TikTok that says "A conference for (wo)men by women" and "the allies are totally allying"

So do only female presenting nonbinary people count?

(I know if you read the article that it says there was an increase in the number of self identifying males but how would the TikToker know that? The TikToker is just looking at the crowd and assuming that the place is overrun with men without actually checking if they're NB.)

[-] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago

That doesn't seem like a job fair for women, but rather a job fair for everybody except men...

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[-] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

While getting more women interested in natural science and tech is an important issue, the current approach in the States isn't working, and one of the major point in you-know-what is that despite the aggressive, well-intentioned push of female representation in traditional male dominated industries in fictional media(it does go too far sometimes), it does not seem to translate into the real world, ans enforcing a female only job fair also seems also well intentioned but unhelpful, because ultimately, you can't force people to like something.

It's troubling, but there doesn't seem to be an easy solution to this.

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[-] Landmammals@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

No one wants to work anymore!

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this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
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