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Fucks sake, this was about Zionism but the Guardian sure is slanting is the other way.
I'm sure it was anti genocide/ anti Zionism they were going for but they fucked up by using the Star of David. That pretty clearly targets the religion not the country.
Not really, the Israeli flag prominently features the star of David. 🇮🇱 See?
That's a very good point. And the flag kinda sums up Israel's strategic conflation of anti Israel with anti Semitism.
I'm guessing from the phrasing of the article that this was the Star of David outside of the flag. Which I think is asking for an accusation of anti Semitism and could have been easily avoided.
Which I think is asking for an accusation of anti Semitism and could have been easily avoided.
Which is exactly why they've conflated Zionism with Judaism for 4/5 of a century. Fuck that.
Yes it was about antizionism, the pictures didn't end after the star of David/swastika thing. The band is fairly direct about thier criticism with what they showed, even by the Guardian's description.
A star of David entwined with a swastika? Clearly, without a doubt anti-Semitic. It's saying "Jews are Nazis".
If you want to convey an anti-zionist message and don't hate Jews, it's actually quite easy. Yeah, Israel will still accuse you of being anti-Semitic but they say Jews are anti-semitic if they dare suggest genocide of Palestinians is a bad thing, so we don't go by that.
People are pushing back on Israel's "all criticism of Israel is racist" with "no criticism of Israel is racist". Be fucking better. Stop condoning racism because it aligns with your politics.
What's on the Israeli flag..? Y'know, the flag that represent a country? What's on it again..? I just plain forgot.
So do you think that Israel and Jews or Judaism are one and the same? No?
The symbols are not the same. A swastika emblazoned on an Israeli flag would be a completely different statement.
You know, just the same as there'd be a difference between displaying an alteration of any religious symbol that implies its members are all evil, and displaying an alteration of a flag featuring that symbol. Many flags feature religious symbols.
That's the problem with creating an ethnostate, suddenly there is conflation between the actions of the nation and its chosen identity. The Star of David is at once a symbol of the religion and the state of israel. The state of israel set these conditions. The symbol can stand for both separately and interrogated/criticized/respected/etc distinctly. You're doing the Knesset's work for them.
Yeah that's a problem with Israel.
Doesn't absolve everyone else of the responsibility not to be racist tho.
That is the newspaper's job sometimes. Offer another view of the facts with a bias different from your own.
If no one is pissed off at the newspaper then the newspaper isn't doing their job.
News' job is to report facts. If one person says it's raining and another says it's not the journalist should go outside and check, not just report "he said, she said" bullshit.
Never heard of an opinion piece? Reporting people's takes on a situation is very much part of journalism along with factual news.
When it's done well, it can be really powerful and informative.
Opinion/editorial and News usually have what's called a firewall between the two departments at a newspaper. They never work together. This is news, not an opinion piece.
This is not an opinion piece.
I never said it was.
So you think opinion = fact?
Did i math that correctly?
Did I say that?
Journalism provides information and understanding. That's it's whole thing. The Information bit tends to be clear - it's verifiable, you can see if it's raining as in your example. Understanding is harder - it's intangible, you infer it or deduce it. Therefore it's non-objective, unprovable, so an opinion.
And lots of things fall into the second category - An article on what Putin's actual objectives are in Ukraine. Why his world view became that way. What it feels like to be a Uyghur in China. What it's like in the inside of the Trump administration. This kind of thing is valuable and it's only communicated through opinion pieces.
I think people react strongly to it because it is something that can be weaponised and has been. Mixed in or presented as informational news. Or might just be advocating some dogshit idea or rotten agenda. There's too many examples to mention...
a jewish religious symbol mashed together with a nazi symbol can easily be interpreted as anti-jew racism
i'm guessing there was no similar islamic symbol representing the genocidal intents and actions of many islamic terrorist movements and countries
another edgy group of musicians jumping on the populist bandwagon. they live in this minuscule bubble of protest against a single action, disconnected from the rest of history and the actions of others and the implications of their protest. when asked to do so they get deeply offended; lash out and implicate you in the same action, or accuse you of what-aboutism ;)
israel chose to make the star of david their flag, but cool whataboutism i guess
They did indeed, which is sort of the point you’re missing. Now you’re letting Israel dictate your messaging by supporting its use, bad plan.
If you want to help Israel, make an anti-Israel message that conflates Israel and Judaism (or just appears to), that’s their entire gambit right now, and it shields them by making anti-Israel messages trigger racism alarms and get ignored.
The more clearly anti-Israel messaging distances itself from anti-Jewish racism the harder Israel has to work, and combining a Star of David and a swastika is straight up zero effort for them. They probably don’t even need to throw any bot comments into the mix, real people will reach the conclusions they want without any help at all.
it sounds a lot more like you're the one letting israel direct your messaging than literally anyone else involved
i literally don't give a shit what israel cries about, if I see something is from an israeli source, i reduce the amount of confidence i have in it by 99%. if i hear that something is anti-semitic, that means I need to check if it's really anti-semitic or if it's just thinly-veiled bullshit again. if I'm too busy, I just assume it's bullshit.
honestly, if nothing else, it's free press, and it might make some zionists wonder why everyone is calling them genocidal and comparing them to nazis
anyways, wishing israel a very dissolved and a happy new execution for war crimes for their state
Here's a video from the gig. I think it would have been more clear they were targeting anti-zionism if they had used that combined symbol on the flag and just stuck with swastikas over the eyes. In context it does seem like they're being critical of Israel here while using symbolism pulled from the Israeli flag though.
If only there was something Israel could do to stop the comparisons of Israelis to genocidal Nazis.
Sounds more like antizionism
this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2025
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