highly recommend https://mailinabox.email/ for setting up and and ticking every compliance box. dmarc, spf etc
unfortunately you can be the best, most compliant host on the planet with the with a cleanest of IP's... google is still going to randomly and silently drop your email to different email addresses. so its pretty much completely untenable for non hobby project.
fuck google so fucking hard
You should be able to clean that up with a relay on a known accepted provider. Sending out emails through Amazon SES should be reasonable without them selling your information.
Selfhosting isn't as clean as it used to be, you pretty much have to buy some form of protection to play.
Hosting email is bad because the few companies everyone tells everyone to use run email. It is fine if hosting email isn't for you but discouraging others to not try is exactly how we lose ground ona completely open protocol. Everyone who is willing should host email. There are "distros" like mailinabox and mailcow that make it very easy. The more folks that host it the more the larger hosts will have to start to be more of a tram player.
I sorta self host my email. Technically aws hosts my email but I've a local postfix and dovecot to serve devices.
That simplifies ip address reputation, dkim, spf, etc. It also provides a backstop if my homelab goes down as messages buffer to s3. I pay a few cents per 1k messages, which effectively means zero.
It is great.
Mailcow protected by crowdsec, using SMTP2GO as outbound relay. No issues. I even have Addy.io running without issues.
I only allow inbound port 25. All other ports and access can only be done over WireGuard.
Best part is. My emails stay in my control on a server in Canada.
I just wish mailcow supported podman. Weirdly enough, apparently Docker Mailserver does, but I haven't had the energy to sink time into setting it up
This is an amusing thread for me as my day job used to be unfucking postfix and exim servers daily for a fleet of vps and dedi boxes.
unfucking postfix
This is not a task for the feint of heart, nor was it ever, even back when the technology was first invented. I salute you.
Tbf most of the time you just had to clear ssd space and rebuild indices after restarting services as mostly the mail was there but stuck in queue
Self hosting for years and have none of these issues, but I'm going to migrate soon and will probably be able to use this as a checklist 😐
Why don't selfhost?
Reliability.
My server is down sometimes. Sometimes days.
No server no email.
No server no email.
I fail to see the problem.
Skill issue. My server has better online times than CloudFlare or AWS.
AWS offers an SLA of 99.9 availability, which it has usually exceeded each year. That means your server can't be down more than ~8h per year to beat it. Your residential ISP (in a nearly optimal case) has a 15-30 min service period overnight every few weeks.
Hope your area gets less than ~3 hours of power outages per year or you're going to be breaching your SLA before you even hit software.
Your ISP is kind of dogshit if it's forcing 15-30m of downtime overnight every few weeks. And power outages are kind of a weird thing to focus on, you should be on a UPS anyway.
In any case, someone interested in self-hosting email very likely has a redundant connection anyway. I'm not even hosting my own email and I have 5gb/mo of cellular backup in dual-WAN, and enough battery capacity to run my entire stack for several hours.
Not to mention a generator to recharge them, if it comes down to that.
Like, I need you to understand that in the networking industry, 99.9% uptime is genuinely laughable. You should be able to hit that by accident. The gold standard is 'five nines', or 99.999% uptime, or less than 5 minutes of downtime a year.
8 hours of downtime a year? If a service I was managing had 8 hours of downtime a year I would be laughed out of my job lol.
Your ISP is kind of dogshit if it's forcing 15-30m of downtime overnight every few weeks. And power outages are kind of a weird thing to focus on.
Point being that these are not "skill issues". AWS's actual uptime over the last decade was something like 5 or 6 9s, 99.9 is just their official SLA. From where many people live (shit ISP, brown outs, floods, tornadoes, etc...), they can't even match that bare minimum. God forbid budget enters the equation (no money for 3-2-1 backup? oops everything is fried from a freak accident).
So yeah you could definitely do OK with a real budget, a quality server setup and enough hours during the week for firefighting. But that's not really "self hosting", you're just making your homelab a $0 revenue small business. For the 95% of people who can't do that, they wouldn't get anywhere close to a cloud provider's service.
I would actually disagree- it doesn't take much budget at all, or even a quality server setup, to have a decent uptime. A consumer router with a sim card slot is possibly something you already have. If not, a cell modem can be as cheap as $30. You could stick your email server on a old shitty raspberry pi. A data sim is $6/mo. If all you're running is a cable modem, a router, and a rpi, you don't even need a big fancy UPS, you can just get a DC battery UPS for like $40. And all this is assuming you're buying stuff new instead of used.
You don't need a lot of budget, quality stuff, or even a ton of hours in the week for self hosting- once you get this stuff set up it should stay working other than the standard upgrades/maint your email server will need.
Everything past that, like setting things up so your mail server is reachable on two IP addresses, is just... skill.
Lol the commenter you replied to didnt expect a one of a kind person to reply.
Normal people don't have a ginormous battery and a generator for when the power goes out.
Every ISP is dogshit too. If it doesn't go down from incompetence, it's their physicial infra being broken from weather or some other "natural event".
Even then, I can't justify paying their crazy rates for 5g backup year round just for it to kick in once or twice a year or a couple nights where I'm not awake anyways.
Every email server that sends mail should have a rety mechanism if it fails to deliver too, so you shouldn't miss any mail as long as your server isn't offline for too long.
Ofc you are allowed to need 99.99% uptime for your home server, just disagreeing that it's a need for most of us (including me).
I mean, my use case is abnormal and generally has more beef behind it than most people would have, yes, but a simpler, cheaper version of what I have set up is kind of a no-brainer if you want to self-host.
e.g. I don't think a simple cyberpower/APC ups on your home server is any kind of a weird 'specialty' thing, and it should definitely run your server for 2-3 hours during an outage for like $100-150 if you grab it on sale (which, you know, why wouldn't you?) As for the generator, I don't have that for my network stack, I have that for my fridge/deep freeze lol. It can just also recharge my UPS if it's really that big of a deal.
As for cell backup, that's definitely less a 'common' homeserver thing, but I'm only paying like $10/mo for my cell backup connection from tello for 5gb of 5G. Hardly breaking the bank, and honestly probably overkill, you could likely get away with their $6/mo 2gb plan. No complaints with it either, I use them for my regular cell plan too. if you were interesting in self-hosting your own email server and wanted better uptime than 99.9%, you probably don't even need that if your ISP only sucks slightly instead of mostly, but it allows you to just not care about your ISP having extended downtime and potentially timing out any retry mechanisms.
If you have a regular data plan that you use if your internet goes down, you're server would technically have an internet connection, but your services (like email) still wouldn't work would it?
Do you have some type of setup that keeps that working on data?
I don't know how buying the ISPs data addon works, but I've been skeptical that the swap over would keep anything online either (but getting a generic data plan surely cant work at all right?).
ai image... with positive vote??? on myfediverse??? what a shame
that third one killed it for me. I hate what the Internet has become. We need to setup a second Internet that somehow can't be monetized.
It's called the i2p network
Correct. Come to I2P and experience 90s internet again. It's slow but has character, if by character you understand I mean anonymous Geocities.
Al slop
Give it up, dude. The models that just recently came out are so good you are kidding yourself if you think you can tell them apart from photographs.
I stopped hosting my own email servers many years ago, even when I was being paid for it. Any time anyone mentions DKIM or yahoo throttling or anything of that nature I get a thousand yard stare and and start to hyperventilate. I'm sure it easier when you aren't sending 5 million messages a month, but who needs the headache.
Been self hosting mail for over a decade and its never been easier thanks to stalwart. The IP block list thing is true though, but mostly you request removal once from Microsoft and spamhaus and that's it.
Personally I use addy.io (previously anonaddy). Self-hostable and an easy way to get and control your own email @
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