Arrested for terrorism for holding a sign. How fucked is the UK.
but graham linehan can call to assault women in bathrooms and get praised by the prime minister
He's a right prick. I hope he gets locked up. Deserves it far more than old people sat with cardboard in their hands.
Man. Tens of thousands is all it will take to end this farce. Not that many when you consider that a genocide is taking place, and the government is complicit in crimes against humanity.
I think we should stay saying "Labour run police force" when these numbers come out.
Whether the badge wears a Labour label or a Conservative one, it’s still the same state instrument protecting private property and keeping the working class in check. The uniform may change, but the class interest it serves doesn’t.
Police who uphold authoritarian system by committers of genocide deserve a blade between the ribs.
The starting salary for a police officer is around £30k, going up to £48k. Many of these people are just trying to do a job as best they can to get by, they are following orders. We can only hope most of these people will do the right thing if things become extreme.
We shouldn't condone attacking people for doing their job, that is what leads to good causes being flagged as terrorism.
“Just following orders” hasn’t been a valid defense since Nuremberg. If “following orders” was a valid defense, there would be a lot of camp guards who wouldn’t have been brought to justice after the war. All humans have agency to either victimize innocents or not. Police officers can choose to not be pigs the same way soldiers can choose to not be murderous Nazis.
So you are suggesting murder? You first.
I’m suggesting justifiable homicide against authoritarians. One man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. Killing an authoritarian pig stormtrooper is the same as killing a Nazi, slave owner, or a Russian/IDF soldier, all are morally justifiable.
Yeah and they are calling you a shitbag coward for posting these violent fantasies on Lemmy. But go ahead and expedite the UK blocking free social media so you can mentally masturbate to killing folks.
I won’t argue that I don’t have violent fantasies. I 100% wake up every single morning and hope that I’m going to read a story about someone finally losing hope and fighting back against their oppressors.
Funny how you blame me for the UK collectively punishing its populace because of a few “bad actors” post that they think it’s morally permissible to kill fascists and authoritarian stooges. Instead of being mad at me for advocating that people fight for their freedoms, maybe you should be more angry with your government for taking them away and criminalizing opposition to genocide. Just a thought.
No one "blames" you for anything outside of your skull and for my part, not even most of that. What is being pointed at is the consequences of actions. Paint splashed on vehicles gave incredible justification to the UK government, what actions will the murder of an officer give rise to? What will it accomplish?
This line of thinking is nothing more than violent ideation and yeah, I fall for it as well. What I do not do is give into it, and I do not use it to justify cries for violence writ large on what is practically the only platform worth engaging in. Cooler heads may disagree.
Lessons not learned in blood are soon forgotten. Show me a peaceful resistance that has resulted in lasting change. The greatest movements in the power dynamic between the ruling class and the governed always require violence.
Show me the anon internet post that has done anything whatsoever. Vomiting a wish into a keyboard for others to overcome your own cowardice is tap dancing in clown shoes.
So no lone wolf attacks on fascists have ever been inspiring by online shit posting? Let’s give it some time and see what the people come up with
Hence the cowardice.
"Everyody talkin 'bout peace. None of them are talking 'bout justice."
Ok. Like I said, you go first.
Can’t. Disabled. I’m the type of people that the people you defend will liquidate first after your appeasement has run its course and they don’t have to pretend anymore.
Ah yes, you're totally not a fraud. Me simply stating your keyboard warrior shit is weak means I am a fascist. Your argument is airtight.
No one said YOU were a fascist, only that you give fascists cover by stating that the people need to deal peacefully with them. The UK is literally arresting and jailing people for speaking out against genocide and supporting freedom for Palestine and your solution is strong language and peaceful protest.
The only thing that stops government violence is populist violence. I’m sorry that offends your sensibilities, but I am absolutely in favor and supportive of violence being used against oppressors.
As others have said, murdering a low level police officer isn't necessarily justified or going to help a SINGLE thing.
Following that line of thinking, it would make no sense for American revolutionaries to kill British soldiers, or for Palestinians to kill IDF, or for European resistance fighters to kill Nazi soldiers. Killing low level stormtroopers “just following orders” is the same as killing an occupying soldier “just following orders.” In both instances, you have low level individuals just going along with a status quo that leads to more victimization of innocents. Police who don’t want to become targets should either fight against oppressive tactics internally, or quit and deprive the force of manpower.
We really don't need to argue here.
Whose arguing? I’m just having a spirited debate on the role violence has in balancing the power dynamic between the ruling class and the governed. I don’t believe that governments should have a monopoly on violence for achieving their goals and that the people have just as much a right, if not more, in using violence as a tool to prevent objective evils.
I perceive a conversation where I'm being accused of doing something horrible as an "argument"
So you’re no longer defending fascists against violent retribution by the people? Do you consider agents of a fascist regime (i.e. police) to be exempt from justified violent action by anti-fascists? Should police action in furtherance of fascist policies only be faced with peaceful protest, or is it morally justifiable to not be tolerant of intolerance, up to and including violence?
This idea gets long. But I'd be interested in genuine opinions.
Have PA supporters tried a long term protest in Hyde Park yet.
Actually arranging for a collection of eloquent speekers. To provide continuing arguments against the actions of the government. Pointing out the hypocrisy of the governments claims.
Specifically indicating starmers history of successfully defending almost identical actions as legal during blairs government.
How the met etc are clearly being used to censor political opposition to the governments actions.
Etc etc.
Ensuring the event is long term a week or more camping at speakers corner.
If nothing else if the Met arrest protesters for speeking in a location that has been traditionally and to a much lesser extent legally protected from censorship since 1872. Will provide a media event.
A little subtle planning can also help extend it. As speekers will be arrested. The goal(IMHO) would need to be to keep attention on the area and the actual debate/counter arguments to the govs rather pathetic case.
Keeping the active protesters a very small group. With signs that prevent arrest. IE opposing gov actions not Supporting PA.
While the Speaker is speaking mainly about the opposition to government actions. And the proscribing of a group that has not commited a crime (according to Starmer in past court cases).
This will ensure all the arrests are questionable in court. And actually fail to meet the definition of unlawful.
Using a small group and keeping non active speakers away from the actions. Will allow a delay between each speaker arrest. Before an entirely new speaker arrived and starts discussing exactly the same points.
iMHO such a protest will draw attention to the MET being used as a from of censorship. Rather then providing protection against terrorism. While wasting as much police time as possible forcing police to either monitor while not arresting. (Assuming the follow the laws Or run back and forth finding excuses to arrest people who are very clearly legally opposing government actions. Rather then supporting PA.
I'd be surprised if anyone makes it to court. But assuming they do. Again more time and effort. More attention.
General Discussion for politics in the UK.
Please don't post to both !uk_politics@feddit.uk and !unitedkingdom@feddit.uk .
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.
Posts should be related to UK-centric politics, and should be either a link to a reputable news source for news, or a text post on this community.
Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.
If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread. (These things should be publicly discussed)
Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.
Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.