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Europeans would swap planes for trains... if they could (www.euractiv.com)
submitted 1 week ago by kebab@endlesstalk.org to c/europe@feddit.org
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[-] Asetru@feddit.org 104 points 1 week ago

Yeah, no shit... Just go to your nearest station 5 minutes before departure instead of wasting hours in security checks and at gates sounds terrific.

The last time I booked an internaional ICE from northern Germany to Bruxelles, the return connection and its follow up connection were cancelled. Best connection to get back would have been a Eurostar but tickets weren't transferable and the guy at the station wouldn't even sell me one. Had to take three short distance trains just to cross the border back to Germany, ended up about five hours late.

National trains are often a mess already but with international connections you're just lost. Booking night trains would be awesome, go to bed in Hamburg and wake up in Barcelona sounds like a dream. Instead, they all go to Vienna, which is nice to go there but isn't helpful for European connectivity as a whole.

[-] DonAntonioMagino@feddit.nl 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

National rail can be (at least) perfectly decent, which it is in the Netherlands. Too bad the EU wants to have it be fucked up by ‘competition’: the European Commission just now sued the Dutch state for giving the consession for the main part of the railway network to the national rail company NS.

[-] bluGill@fedia.io 21 points 1 week ago

Competition is good, but railroads are a natural monopoly - there are very few points in the world that can justify more than one set of tracks between them. Airplanes can share an airport because if someone else blocks a runway everyone else can take a different one and thus there can be competition. However if train operator B blocks a track (possibly by running a slow train) everyone else can't get through.

I'm all for competition, but you have to own your own tracks.

[-] DonAntonioMagino@feddit.nl 32 points 1 week ago

In the Netherlands the actual railways are owned by a separate company that was split from NS after privatisation, ProRail.

Railway competition is bullshit anyway. Neoliberal ideology pretends people constantly make informed decisions about what products they wish to buy. This is bullshit anyway, but with the railways especially. If you want to take the train to a specific place and arrive at a specific time, you will pretty much always have one option anyway. There is no choice. All the so-called ‘competition’ will do, is split up a currently contiguous network, which will probably introduce needless transfers to different train companies, where you currently have one.

So-called ‘competition’ is a disaster for what should be a public service like the railways.

[-] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago

Railways and the energy market are the two areas where liberalization most spectacularly shat the bed. It increased prices, decreased reliability, didn't deliver on anything it was supposed to, and still the neoliberals are saying "one more market incentive bro, just one more incentive and we'll build productive competition into this natural monopoly".

[-] freebee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago

Dutch have good national trains but are also part of the reason for poor trains on European level. The Dutch have built next to nothing high speed tracks, NS also don't invest in night trains.

[-] brot@feddit.org 4 points 1 week ago

The netherlands are at max around 320km x 150km. They are also densly populated with major population centers there. You really do not need classical high speed rail like the TGV in that scenario

[-] freebee@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago

You do need that if you're for example traveling from Amsterdam to Berlin, Copenhagen, Gothenburg etc, the kind of travel this article and post are about. Amsterdam to Berlin takes 7,5 hours, at least, by train that's ridiculously slow for just 650 km. About 1/4 of that is in NL, runs through a part of NL which is not at all as densily populated as the Randstad is.

[-] lost@lemmy.wtf 6 points 1 week ago

Which is why we need to nationalise rail at the EU level IMHO

[-] emmanuel_car@fedia.io 5 points 1 week ago

Just please don’t take away my Deutschlandticket

[-] freebee@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago

Make it a Europe ticket.

[-] snowflocke@feddit.org 15 points 1 week ago

And waiting 5 hours for the Deutsche Bahn to arrive. I don't really care for the prices but German trains are a nightmare to travel with

[-] Cherry@piefed.social 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Kinda agree. Good when smooth, but when bad it’s bad.

I once booked a train months in advance. Got there and the train got cancelled. No notice just not there. I waited in queue for 30 mins. Person told me catch the next one in 1 hour.

I did. The conductor on the train came along and threaten to throw us off as it was not the correct ticket. There was just no rational option.

Otherwise I love the train.

[-] hallunke23@troet.cafe 1 points 1 week ago

Conductor is out his mind. If your train is cancelled, you have any right to use another train. Where is the problem?
@Cherry @snowflocke

[-] snowflocke@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago

Yeah, still happens alot you end up being 2 hours late or even more and that happens on regional connection

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[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 10 points 1 week ago

Yeah, no shit… Just go to your nearest station 5 minutes before departure instead of wasting hours in security checks and at gates sounds terrific.

I just wish some rail companies (DB 🤡) wouldn't fuck this up with pricing structures copied from air travel that make tickets bought on the day of travel usually prohibitively expensive.

[-] Redditquaza@feddit.org 2 points 1 week ago

Yeah for real, I once had to pay close to 180€ for a second class ticket from Berlin to Cologne without a seat reservation since I had to buy it only a few hours in advance.

[-] megrania@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 1 week ago

Night trains (the sleeper trains, not the ones where you have to sit and they go at night) sound great in theory but, after having taken one once, I'm not sure whether I'd enjoy it as a regular means of transportation.

I don't think it would scale and thus would always be pretty expensive.

I had to push my heavy luggage up high into a compartment above the beds, and navigate in very tight quarters, which works fine if you're young and have no back problems, but older folks might struggle.

I traveled in a 2-bed compartment with my partner, not sure whether I'd enjoy a cramped 6-bed compartment.

I'd much rather have a good connection in the morning and enough space on the train to use the trip as a work day (remote worker privilege, for sure) or reading day, and arrive in the evening, or, if the distance is very long, have affordable accommodation at the major train stations (not overpriced hostels with a club in the courtyard, which happened to me in Paris once).

So all in all, I feel like the sleeper train thing seems more of a touristy event-thing than a regular mode of transportation, at least if other options are available ...

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I agree that if you travel with a lot of luggage the sleeper trains can be a bit cramped and there should be probably some sort of check in luggage for long distance trips.

Otherwise the compartments seem fine? I definitly prefer them over some cheap and noisy hotel right at the train station.

[-] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Barcelona in particular is a bit more difficult than the rest of Europe since we have a different rail standard in Spain.

But also Barcelona in particular is very close to the french border. So making one connection there doesn't sound too bad.

[-] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 9 points 1 week ago

The high speed trains use standard gauge, not iberian, even in Iberia.

[-] remon@ani.social 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Where are these airports with hours of security checks? I've never taken more than 15 minutes.

[-] bluGill@fedia.io 3 points 1 week ago

Big airports in the US often need you to arrive that far beforehand. The security line itself is often half an hour, then there is the other lines to check your baggage (if any) - these are generally quick, but still a line. From the door to your gate can often take most of an hour, but not all of the time is in security.

Though I live in a tiny city, the security line is rarely long and there are only a few gates so I can get to my gate in less than half an hour most of the time. However I still arrive an hour in advance because at peak times the line will get long.

[-] remon@ani.social 3 points 1 week ago

Yeah, but this is about Europe. We know that US air travel is fucked. You have to take your shoes off, lol.

[-] bluGill@fedia.io 2 points 1 week ago

Taking shoes off only adds maybe a minute to the security time. Large airports in Europe need you to arrive an hour early as well to make it on time. Europe also has security lines - they works little different, but there are still lines. There are also baggage lines, and large airports need you to spend a lot of time to get to your gate.

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[-] Asetru@feddit.org 2 points 1 week ago

It really depends. I've been to airports where it took me less than 10 minutes from the entry door to the gate. I've also been in security lines that took hours because of whatever. Unfortunately, the conditions usually state that you have to take this into account and should be at the airport at least 2 hours early, so that's what I do to not miss my plane without being able to request a refund or something.

[-] sparky@lemmy.federate.cc 4 points 1 week ago

I think that's because ÖBB/Austrian Railways is the only operator that's still investing in night trains

[-] Vincent@feddit.nl 3 points 1 week ago

Let's hope trains will remain (mostly) security check-free.

[-] megrania@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 week ago

Sorry to disappoint you ... in Barcelona-Sants, you have to go through one ... not the body-scan thing yet, but you have to pass your luggage through a scanner, there's a line, and you definitely have to bring some time, be there 20 min before at least ...

[-] emmanuel_car@fedia.io 2 points 1 week ago

Yep, a couple of years ago all my high speed trains in Spain required security checks.

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[-] oeuf@slrpnk.net 26 points 1 week ago

Trains are so much better in so many ways. The only mode of transport that can compete for me is boats.

[-] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 25 points 1 week ago

I would think most Americans that have ever been on a decent high speed train would as well. Such a better experience than the life-sucking horror of modern air travel.

[-] EverXIII@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

Trains are still extremely expensive when compared to flights to the same destinations. Unfortunately...

[-] atro_city@fedia.io 9 points 1 week ago

For the simple reason that planes are subsidised.

[-] Obi@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 week ago

Even driving alone in my car is usually cheaper for the "usual" 6-12h drive distance. Let alone with passengers or if I pickup a blablacar. I'd love to do more train but it needs to be subsidized more for the prices to become reasonable, and that I can book shortly before my trips because in my branch it's impossible for me to schedule the tickets so far ahead. I still have to deal with equipment to move around but that can be dealt with through rentals on location.

[-] Sheldan@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

Not as long as those planes are too cheap.

[-] kebab@endlesstalk.org 24 points 1 week ago

I would rather see trains getting cheaper than planes getting more expensive though

[-] Jobe@feddit.org 28 points 1 week ago

Tax the planes to subsidize trains, I guess.

[-] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Remember the days when railways were exclusively government run enterprises?

Thanks to the neoliberal thieves selling off public property for short term profits, now we all can enjoy paying the ever raising prices for ever diminishing service.

[-] calavera@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago

AFAIK It's working for Spain and Italy

[-] coyootje@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I wish it was like that here in the Netherlands. Instead we get flights that stay more or less the same price due to heavy subsidies and constant bickering about the trains. They've already announced another 10% price hike on trains for the coming year, after already raising it by 5-10% every single year for the past few years. It's insane. Add to that the extra inconvenience of having to cross borders with mediocre connections and I can understand that people don't take the train.

[-] LazyGit@feddit.org 13 points 1 week ago

Maxbe we should start requiring to pay tax on aviation fuel for starters? First step on fuel sold in the EU, then for fuel used to reach the EU…

[-] RedPandaRaider@feddit.org 3 points 1 week ago

Planes are not too cheap. Trains are too expensive.

Only raising prices is neoliberal ideology. We need to lower prices on the things that are too expensive. Something being "too cheap" due to subsidies is a secondary concern.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Thats the "if they could" part...

[-] reddig33@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Same with Americans. We have no decent rail here.

[-] 0x0@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 week ago

Years of defunding and neglect led to this.

[-] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 8 points 1 week ago

smiles in Swiss

[-] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago

Not only the reliability is an issue, all too often, traveling a longer distance by high speed train costs a small fortune compared to a flight of the same distance.

[-] apotheotic@beehaw.org 6 points 1 week ago

Trains are fucking rad, duh

[-] unabart@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago

DB’s a fkn mess. Prices go up, reliability goes into the toilet. And there’s not a single thing anyone can do about it aside from finding another way. I want trains to be awesome. They are far from it, post-pandemic.

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this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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