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submitted 4 weeks ago by Gsus4@mander.xyz to c/world@lemmy.world
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[-] lupusblackfur@lemmy.world 173 points 4 weeks ago

"Because that would be totally devastating to our plans for Taiwan."

đź’©

[-] plyth@feddit.org 8 points 4 weeks ago

They don't have those plans. That's insinuated to distract from what the minister actually said and implied.

I have poined this out in the other post: https://feddit.org/post/15221478

This article is slightly misleading if compared with the SCMP article which has big implications on understanding the global power dynamics. Draw your own conclusions.

SCMP:

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told the European Union’s top diplomat on Wednesday that Beijing does not want to see a Russian loss in Ukraine because it fears the United States would then shift its whole focus to Beijing, according to several people familiar with the exchange.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say

https://web.archive.org/web/20250704053134/https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say

vs

As the war in Ukraine drags on, Wang’s reported comments suggest that Russia’s war in Ukraine may serve China’s strategic needs as focus is deviated away from Beijing’s mounting preparation to launch its own possible invasion into Taiwan.

It's subtle, but the attack on Taiwan is an interpretation. The minister means something else.

If the economic development continues, Taiwan will want to join China. Thus the focus of the US is interpreted differently by China, more like the focus Iraq or Afghanistan received.

SCMP:

During a marathon four-hour debate on a wide range of geopolitical and commercial grievances, Wang was said to have given Kallas – the former Estonian prime minister who only late last year took up her role as the bloc’s de facto foreign affairs chief – several “history lessons and lectures”.

Some EU officials felt he was giving her a lesson in realpolitik, part of which focused on Beijing’s belief that Washington will soon turn its full attention eastward, two officials said. One interpretation of Wang’s statement in Brussels is that while China did not ask for the war, its prolongation may suit Beijing’s strategic needs, so long as the US remains engaged in Ukraine.

vs

that they believed Wang was providing Kallas with a lesson in realpolitik during the four-hour encounter.

No mentioning of the “history lessons and lectures”, which is a friendlier way of saying that he has referenced past behavior that suggest that the EU is in the wrong.

There seems to be ignorance about what is going to happen even right at the top of the EU. The Chinese minister is calling bullshit. Yet Kallas must have already known better.

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[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 71 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

If this is true, the EU better be figuring out how to change that price calculus for them.

Which makes me doubt an open admission actually did happen, since China would understand the possibility for blowback.

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 34 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

I used to joke that China wants to trade Ukraine for Taiwan, now it is very clear: you shut up about helping/recognizing/arming Taiwan and we keep a leash on russia...until next time...

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 10 points 4 weeks ago

Taiwan for Ukraine would actually be a trade worth considering for Europe. The major problem, besides values like freedom and democracy, international law, is the interruption of supply lines from Taiwan caused by a Chinese takeover.

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 15 points 4 weeks ago

Exactly, Taiwan made sure it was worth defending, but I fear that this will lose value over time. Besides you never know what stupid shit is going to come out of tramp's brain the day anything escalates.

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 weeks ago

Trump like the military because he does like everything powerful and strong. I think he truly is opposed to long and costly wars. So far his actions track that pretty well.

Trump is looking for deals to enrich himself or become more famous and powerful.

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

...so was putin (who is smarter than him), it was supposed to be a 2-week SMO in the Donbas. But the problem with these megalomaniac gamblers is that it is easy for them to miscalculate, because they think war is easy, quick, simple and they think that their opponents are no match.

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[-] Tabula_stercore@lemmy.world 11 points 4 weeks ago

Interruption? You mean ceasing, as all semiconductor industry would be levelled by the usa

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[-] drdiddlybadger@pawb.social 65 points 4 weeks ago

That is a startlingly weak position for China to be in.

[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 18 points 4 weeks ago

Not really startling. No big player other than Russia has ever been on China's side RE Taiwan.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

I feel like Russian support is pretty much a rounding error when it comes to Chinese power.

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[-] drmoose@lemmy.world 52 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

It still baffles me how people manage to justify China's position on Russia. Sure it's "geopolitics" but if you take a look at domestic propaganda in China itself it's certainly much more than that.

Check out videos of what Ukrainians deal with while living in China - its down right disgusting how brainwashed Chinese are equating Zelenskyy to the likes of Hitler in Ukrainian's faces and thsse are just normal people in apolitical contexts like nurses in hospitals. It's absolute insanity.

[-] AstaKask@lemmy.cafe 32 points 4 weeks ago

That's just Chinese people in general on any subject. Anyone who's actually been to that country would notice pretty quickly that things are NOT OK. The Chinese population has never not known abuse and it shows.

[-] jimjam5@lemmy.world 16 points 4 weeks ago

I lived and worked in China for a year (Shenzhen). There was a palpable sense of brainwashing and/or an overpowering air of unhealthy patriotism there. Which made it stranger for me as I had Chinese friends and coworkers that seemed like decent normal people, we went to bars and drank and joked together. But whenever the topic of China as a country and its policies came up, everyone had a similar change in attitude and unwavering loyalty to the government.

I never felt that I was being targeted specifically, but I also never felt truly comfortable for a number of reasons. I’m glad I got to expand my horizons and experience a bit of what the country/city had to offer, I don’t think I would willingly go to live there again.

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[-] sujeito@kbin.earth 43 points 4 weeks ago

Implying that the US could be too focused on Russia right now to help Taiwan defend against a Chinese invasion sounds like wishful thinking considering how little they are doing to help Ukraine.

[-] BenjiRenji@feddit.org 13 points 4 weeks ago

Well, they need to help Israel fight a multi-front war and commit genocide at the same time. That's more than just walking and chewing gum at the same time.

[-] fluxion@lemmy.world 37 points 4 weeks ago

Sure you can.

[-] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 35 points 4 weeks ago
[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 6 points 4 weeks ago

True, they can demand Haishenwai and Outer Manchuria all the way to and including lake Baikal to help russia keep what it has stolen from Ukraine. Or else...geh fuck yourselves.

[-] perestroika@slrpnk.net 26 points 4 weeks ago

As a side note: there is speculation that China may be approaching a change of leader due to Xi experiencing health issues (not a change of leadership in the wider sense - the collegial system of the CCP is considered to be functioning).

Thus, it may be impossible for the Chinese foreign minister to be fully confident of what China's policy will be in the future.

Obviously, China views it as unacceptable for Russia (its ally and soon enough, practically its vassal) to all-out lose. (The easiest way to not lose, of course, is not starting a war, but that train is long gone and behind the hills.)

Prolonging the war does not eliminate this risk well, however - exhaustion could spread in Russian society and morale could collapse despite the state spewing its propaganda, or the economy could collapse. So, simply propping up Russia by letting them buy the goods they shouldn't be getting is not a very elegant solution. Direct interference on behalf of Russia would lead to open hostility with the EU, which is currently ambivalent about China.

What remains is nudging Russia to negotiate. But Putin is hard-headed and only willing to negotiate Ukraine's surrender, on terms which Ukrainians will laugh out of the door.

As for the US being able to focus on China, well I guess they're a bit concerned about it, but given the mental and organizational capability of the current US leadership, I don't think Chinese analysts are particularly worried.

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[-] Binturong@lemmy.ca 23 points 4 weeks ago

Hey well maybe that would have been a good consideration to make before tying themselves to the outcome by tacitly (and directly) supporting Russia for profit in the first place. When your fortune is dependent on the eradication of millions of people, by choice, you deserve to lose, and can go kick rocks for all I care. Slava Ukraine.

[-] ms_lane@lemmy.world 19 points 4 weeks ago

China has chosen to be the enemy the west and rules based order then.

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 33 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

tramp has chosen to be the enemy of the west and the rules based order, China's just been having a wonderful time flying under the cover of the daily orange meltdown since the clown show started.

PS: they don't even have to do anything, they just have to point at trump and say "democracy, you mean THAT?" And they'll be using it as evidence against the "chaos of democracy" worldwide.

[-] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world 26 points 4 weeks ago

rules based order

The rules based order is allowing genocide to happen in Gaza.

[-] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 4 weeks ago

The thread is about Ukraine. I am all for the genocide in Gaza to stop but can you try not to hijack any post about every other conflict?

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[-] Joncash2@lemmy.ml 11 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

No, you're not understanding what is being said here. The west has always declared China the opponent and they'll take China on when they finish their other conflicts like Russia. The EU has consistently asked China to stop Russia. China's just saying the quiet part out loud. Who in their right mind would help you after you constantly called me a threat and told me if Russia falls you're coming after me?

Edit for those down voting me, here's Kallas saying China is next, the person China is talking to in the article.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihQTS1RC50A

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 16 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

The west has always declared China the opponent and they’ll take China on when they finish their other conflicts like Russia.

Always? Citation needed. After COVID, maybe? Or did it start with tramp in 2016, maybe sooner at the 2008 olympics? Certainly in 1993 that was not the case when China entered the WTO.

And of course: nearly nobody in the EU wanted to fight russia or spend more on defense until forced to open their eyes on russia's reinvasion of Ukraine in 2022.

[-] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world 9 points 4 weeks ago

Since the Opium Wars. Churchill even talked about breaking China apart a la the Muslim World so that it can never rise again.

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Yeah, that guy's gone. The policy with China was to encourage it to become the Germany of Asia in the hopes that it would liberalize as it developed. Well...no...shit happens...

[-] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

How about this from 2025?: Kaja Kallas: EU Must Focus on Russia Before Taking on China | Dawn News English

It is not like Sinophobia and Yellow Perilism suddenly stopped in the West. China sees what the West is doing to Gaza and the Middle East as a whole, and knows if it weren't for its might they would do the same to it. I see Westerners online openly daydream of breaking up China and post their maps of a broken-up China. Breaking up the Middle East and the Muslim World doomed it for over a century, why would China allow that for itself? They know they are next.

Also, why is liberalism mandatory? I don't want my country to liberalize. There are other systems that work just as well if not better than [mandatory] Liberalism. If Chinese liberalize that's their own business and if they don't that's their choice.

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[-] Joncash2@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

At least since Obama.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_foreign_policy_of_the_Barack_Obama_administration

Here's an EU based article saying that really it's been happening since Clinton.

https://ecpr.eu/Events/Event/PaperDetails/25139

Always as in before anyone currently in power was in power.

Now, China is just saying what your thinking. If EU isn't supporting USA on this, we can talk. Otherwise what do we gain from not keeping Russia afloat?

Edit btw the point of all of this is China is literally telling the EU how to stop the war. Turn on the US

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 8 points 4 weeks ago

Yeah, the 1st paper is from 2015, that's after the Hong Kong protests, when it was finally clear that China was going to stamp out democracy in Hong Kong and Xi Jinping's new Wolf Warrior diplomacy. Excuse us for being...unimpressed.

Eh, but I'm not making any predictions, but if russia implodes by repeatedly hitting their head against a wall, you're cleaning up that mess, not us, he's your drunken psychotic friend now. We already got plenty scalded trying to rehab them and getting blamed for everything that went wrong.

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[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 4 weeks ago

Short notice that kyivindependent.com is certainly not neutral on this.

[-] mriswith@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago

It's being reported by other outlets like the CNN and the South China Morning Post.

[-] redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 weeks ago

For now. Ideally they lose in a few years once China has a better position

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 14 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

You can count on tramp and his fascist toadies to lose their proxy war with China without a fight by refusing to acknowledge it until no asian ally is willing to resist or share intel out of fear of getting betrayed, like the EU and Ukraine.

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[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 4 weeks ago

U.S. President Donald Trump, who has not managed to broker a promised ceasefire between Moscow and Kyiv, has long viewed China as the United States' main adversary and is predominantly focused on relations between the two nations.

Heys the only one that can negotiate a peace. On day one!

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago

Wang's reported comments suggest that Russia's war in Ukraine may serve China's strategic needs as focus is deviated away from Beijing's mounting preparation to launch its own eventual invasion into Taiwan.

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[-] BeNotAfraid@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago

kyivindependent is a disinformation platform

[-] Doom@ttrpg.network 9 points 4 weeks ago

Can you do me a favor and come back with proof and sources I'd love to not believe in lies but I need evidence and honestly this makes sense to me. China is helping Russia, whether that's for their benefits or what benefits exactly is unclear to me. So this seems true.

[-] SuspiciousCatThing@pawb.social 9 points 4 weeks ago

Oh cool, a Russian shill. Fuck straight off.

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this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025
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