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[-] Luci@lemmy.ca 47 points 1 month ago

32bit does need to go but we're at a time where a lot of people are switching their main PCs or gaming PCs over to Fedora to get ahead of Windows 10 EoS. The timing in this change couldn't be worse (even if it's two versions ahead.)

It's bad PR to break Steam and gaming at this time. Valve needs to sort this out on their end but the Fedora Project needs to check in with their users to see what they're using on Fedora.

Also loved the gaslighting at the end. Very Linux dev.

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 11 points 1 month ago

Steam is kind of junk if you look into how it actually works

Value needs to get its stuff together

[-] Luci@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 month ago
[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It is 32bit and depends on a runtime from a really old version of Ubuntu. It is also proprietary but that is a different issue.

It would be nice if Value worked with the Fedora project to build something open and modern so that devs could easily package games for Linux. The problem is that Value wants everyone to go though Steam as Steam is where they actually make money. People like to see Value as the good guy but it isn't all sunshine and rainbows. I can't really blame them in the end but it is important to realize they have a interest that may not always align with the community.

[-] Luci@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 month ago

Tyty

I fully agree with what you wrote. Someone email Gabe!!!!

[-] Threeme2189@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

Get Gabe and Linus on the discord chat so that they can hash this out right quick!

[-] AntiBullyRanger@ani.social 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

What gaslight?

Containerizing the 2038 problem won't fix 32 bit issues that need recompilations.

Have you set your devices to 2038 and reported the issues your distro needs fixed?

[-] Luci@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

I'm using multilib for gaming compatibility, I'm not saying we need full _time32 support.

If I pull 32bit libs for specific applications, why would that affect the kernel or the user spaces apps that are all 64 bit and using 64 bit function calls??

2038 will break games that make specific calls to 32bit time functions, sure. Thats gonna suck in 12 years from now. But what if instead of breaking compatibility for gaming now, we work towards a solution in the next 12 years?

[-] AntiBullyRanger@ani.social 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's the other way around: your _time32 libs will fail, especially user apps that call Fedora{Linux _time64. The kernel as of right now is safe for year 2038.

You have a decade to test everything, report, and fix. Recompilation projects for everything. I want to see year2038_bazzite_safedb.org with all the games and apps you use marked ☑ 2039+ compliant. You need to start now.

You should have started on 2004. So time to catch up! So yes, let's database the solutions an app at a time, before the decade is up!

[-] Guidy@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

Is dropping support for 32bit hardware more important than being able to run on everything?

Because it has always seemed like one of Linux’s core strengths is that no matter what your hardware is, you can run Linux on it.

[-] missphant 18 points 1 month ago

There are and will always be distros optimized for running on everything. Fedora is a "move fast" distro, it's hard to move fast with a lot of baggage.

[-] kurcatovium@piefed.social 4 points 1 month ago

Run fast is fine, until it's run away fast...

[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 1 month ago

Is dropping support for 32bit hardware more important than being able to run on everything?

Yes evidently, because they dropped that hardware support in 2019. Specifically they dropped 32-bit x86 kernels in Fedora 31

[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

To be a little more precise, Linux is still available for 32-bit x86, just not from the Fedora distro. The Linux project is just now dropping support for 486 CPUs, because the maintenance burden for a virtually unused system type is too high for the mainline. That still leaves 32-bit Pentiums and newer though.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

I think the last time I had a 32 bit CPU was around 2005 but I could be remembering that incorrectly. Supporting 20 year old hardware isn't always easy.

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

It isn't easy, but this isn't about the hardware. It's about the software packages. Tons of software meant to run on 32-bit hasn't been updated to run on 64-bit natively. Thus the burden of keeping a lot of packages that serve as backwards compatibility.

[-] The_Decryptor@aussie.zone 2 points 1 month ago

Tons of software meant to run on 32-bit hasn’t been updated to run on 64-bit natively.

32bit only Linux apps are basically non-existent, anything with the source available and maintainers would have been ported at some point in the last 2 decades, otherwise they have very specific technical reasons for being 32bit only (like OBS iiuc), the source has been lost somehow, or it's a proprietary program where the company has no interest (e.g. Valve with Steam)

In fact I think Steam might really be it.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

True, yeah I read that too. Started as a hardware thing but now it's a "this is the state of things as a result of things that were hard to change" thing.

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 month ago

Fedora is usually the first to pioneer something

[-] ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 month ago

Being able to run on everything is nice, but what you're actually asking for here is for a highly skilled (and rare) distro maintainer to dedicate substantial amounts of time to maintaining and testing thousands of packages on 32 bit systems in case someone wants to use it. It's not just like users get to click a button and voila, they can run more games than before.

If you really need to use 32 bit software, eventually you'll just have to manage it yourself because no one else is able to do it for you. That capability will almost never go away.

[-] bigredcar@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Yet Apple somehow got away with removing 32-bit apps and changing architectures multiple times.

[-] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago

And they broke A LOT of software along the way.

[-] AntiBullyRanger@ani.social 1 points 1 month ago

Software people rewrote, wrote, and forwarded along the way.

[-] yistdaj@pawb.social 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I don't think Apple is concerned with making every app and game work on their systems to the same degree as a Linux distro. They have a niche they seem satisfied with and that niche isn't really Steam games.

With that being said, Valve made a 64 bit client for Mac so whichever major distro is first will probably push Valve to finally make a 64 bit version for Linux.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

That's a very different kind of thing. The apple ecosystem is tiny. They themselves make every single device supported by the OS. They make the only variant of the OS. They have the power to change whatever they want and everyone who wants any access to apps (or users) needs to follow apple's guidelines. They also have something close to a monopoly in certain professional use cases. So they can push whatever they want and everyone has to suck it up.

Compare that to Fedora. Fedora is just one distro in a sea of different Linux distros. They aren't even the biggest one, not by a longshot. So if they drop 32bit, that won't force Valve to move Steam to 64bit and it certainly won't push game developers to update old, unsupported games that were never meant to run on Linux at all to change anything.

Most likely, people would just move to a different distro.

[-] ter_maxima@jlai.lu 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Don't break userspace. 32-bit support should never be removed.

[-] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 16 points 1 month ago

Userspace is allowed to break themselves

[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 month ago

Don’t break userspace.

That's a kernel saying. A bit unfitting to repeat it for the distro that builds said userspace.

[-] Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org 4 points 1 month ago

Well, that makes Fedora a distro I can marginally trust for now.

[-] CriticalMiss@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

So we’re just gonna keep chugging along until 2038? Please.

[-] trevor 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

No. Valve (the biggest offender) will have to make native 64-bit Steam before then, as will the remaining holdouts, so Linux distros will be able to remove 32-bit packages in a timely manner.

Removing then now will break too much to be worth doing.

[-] GolfNovemberUniform@infosec.pub 1 points 1 month ago

I don't think Fedora users care about breakages ngl.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

I am a fedora user. I care. Why wouldn't I? ...

[-] trevor 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Same. If most of my games stopped working, I would be very annoyed, especially because it was entirely preventable.

Thankfully, the Fedora project and community agree.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Yeah. I'm not saying the process went perfectly, but I think it's good they proposed this and then nixed it. Gotta do it someday though.

[-] GolfNovemberUniform@infosec.pub 2 points 1 month ago

Because Fedora is a testing distro which gets rid of legacy stuff the first. I wouldn't recommend it if you care tbh.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

I mean, I have more than one machine. Some can be closer to guinea pigs than others. In this case, it's a laptop that I don't keep anything unbacked-up on. Had Fedora on it for about 6 months and I cannot remember an update breaking anything for me so far. The previous machine I had it on was used less but I had the same experience. If you're mainly just web browsing on a machine, bleeding edge is good imo

this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2025
213 points (100.0% liked)

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