Those pesky enclosed mobility scooters: are they legal on roads? (www.baytoday.ca)

submitted 1 month ago by Showroom7561@lemmy.ca to c/micromobility@lemmy.world

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I've seen several of these around, on roads. And to be honest, if I had to replace my car, it might be for one of these!

But what the hell? They are ONLY allowed on sidewalks, which IMO, they really shouldn't be. And are NOT allowed on roads because they are classified as "pedestrians"?

We need new laws to accomodate and encourage the adoption of "mini cars" as car alternatives within urban and sububan travel..

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[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

top speed of 20-30 km/hr

Yeah, that's definitely not something that should be sharing space with pedestrians. Where I live, the maximum speed that's allowed without a driver's licence is 15 km/h, and it's legal to drive the classic mobility scooters anywhere - sidewalk, road, bicycle lane are all fine. Most of them seem to have a maximum speed of 6 km/h (you don't even need insurance for them at that speed).

Trouble with these enclosed models is that it doesn't seem like it's actually safe for them to drive on a road (or at 30 km/h, imagine colliding with a lantern pole at that speed ...), so the only place that might be alright for them is the bicycle lane. But even on a bicycle lane, I question the ability and willingness of their drivers to drive safely enough at 30 km/h to not endanger the people they're sharing the lane with. E-bikes are already an issue at a maximum of 25 km/h (especially when their drivers are elderly), this adds potentially another 5 km/h and a mostly false sense of security on top.

[-] Venator@lemmy.nz 3 points 1 month ago

this adds potentially another 5 km/h and a mostly false sense of security on top.

Not to mention how much more it weighs than an e-bike...

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 month ago

It's hard to address these concerns pretty specifically because every type of device, whether it be a pedal bicycle, an ebike, an e-scooter, or one of these enclosed mobile scooters, all have different weights, different powers, and kind of go the same speed.

The exception of pedal bikes, which can far exceed 30 km an hour quite easily.

That's why I think alternative infrastructure should be made for these electric vehicles, which aren't cars but also not ebikes.

And hell, take away a lane from cars. I don't give a damn. 😂

30km/h isn't bad, if you're using this on low speed roads (for example, 40 km/h roads). But if we are to see an exit from large cars and SUVs, then we need to rapidly change laws and infrastructure to accommodate "mini cars" like this.

[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

That’s why I think alternative infrastructure should be made for these electric vehicles, which aren’t cars but also not ebikes.

I really don't think that's feasible, though. Most cities genuinely struggle with trying to make space just for bicycle lanes, there's no way most of them can fit another lane for yet another class of vehicles. Taking away all regular car lanes might do it, but I don't think that's remotely realistic :D

30km/h isn’t bad, if you’re using this on low speed roads (for example, 40 km/h roads).

That was my assumption from the start (30 km/h roads are fairly common here), but it's still pretty bad IMO. These scooters being fully enclosed pretty much means that the driver will take the full force of an accident very often, compared to bicycle accidents where they often spend some of the accident force by flying around (which is still survivable at 30 km/h), and usually won't go nearly as fast. Nevermind cars, the driver could easily die by driving into a pole, wall or parking car at full speed. Though I suppose most of the issue is that I assume that the driver is elderly and thus slow to react and with bad traffic awareness, these people shouldn't be going 25 km/h on an e-bike, either.

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 month ago

I really don’t think that’s feasible, though. Most cities genuinely struggle with trying to make space just for bicycle lanes, there’s no way most of them can fit another lane for yet another class of vehicles. Taking away all regular car lanes might do it, but I don’t think that’s remotely realistic :D

I like to think of it like this: cars are not the future. The sooner we build for non-car modes of transportation, the better. And any city that fails in this regard will not attract the best people, because it will be an undesireable city to live in.

Hey, you don't need to take "lanes" from cars, so we can start with on-street parking! Any new developments should have design for these other forms of transportation in their plan, just like many do with multi-use paths (instead of sidewalks + bike gutters).

[-] JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 month ago

Here in Finland they are mopeds (EU classification L1e) - limited to 45km/h, allowed on the road and most bike lanes, can be driven without a license if you were born before 1985 (grandfathered) otherwise requires the quick and cheap AM license you can get at 15.
Which is why they are almost entirely advertised for the elderly, literally known as senior scooters, as a vehicle that doesn't require a license means you can keep driving one even if the doctor takes your drivers license.

[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Driving a vehicle that can do 45 km/h without a license and no crumple zone sounds suicidal ...

[-] JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 month ago

Still a lot safer than actual mopeds.

[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 3 points 1 month ago

I'm not ready to accept that as-is. Sure, you're less likely to fall down in a four-wheeled vehicle, but I'm not convinced that a closed vehicle without a crumple zone is actually safer than an open two-wheeled vehicle in a collision. My guess is that you're more likely to injure yourself on a regular moped, but you're more likely to outright die in a mobility scooter.

[-] JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 month ago

AFAIK there hasn't been a single death in Finland involving one. Biggest thing is that they stick out like a sore thumb in traffic so you reduce the risk of getting driven over by an inattentive car driver by multiple orders of magnitude.

[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 2 points 1 month ago

Huh, that's neat.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Wow. You only get the 25km/h model here for that. For anything faster, you need a full driving licence.

[-] SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

Why not just update the highway traffic act to accomodate new realities, instead of doubling-down on enforcement?

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 month ago

Good luck. Getting the HTA to change for the benefit of non-car drivers is near impossible.

We need the Idaho Stop legalized in Canada and the HTA is the only way to get it (and that hasn't happened in... Decades?). 😞

[-] SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

Maybe someone just gotta submit the right form. That's how you deal with these bearocracies. I gotta get looking into this! I bet we could get an AI to do it!

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

Really, I wish you luck!

I've tried to get my MP, local city council, regional council, and regional advocacy groups to get some movement, and nothing.

I'm saying this as I'm watching a bike touring video series around the Netherlands, and I feel even more pissed off about the state of our transportation priorities.

[-] SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

Can't we just like submit a pull request?

[-] xylogx@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Saw someone weaving in and out of traffic on a unicycle doing 50mph. So that happened.

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 month ago

LOL. I don't think most places even have a legal designation for EUCs, so "anything goes!" 😱

[-] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 2 points 1 month ago

They are perfectly allowed. But I don't know about your place

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

They are perfectly allowed.

Where are they allowed where you live? Road, bike lanes, sidewalks, all of the above?

[-] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 1 points 1 month ago

On regular streets.

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

Interesting, so does your municipality consider them to be standard vehicles, like an automobile?

Or something more like an e-bike?

Around here, they are quite literally classified as pedestrians. Which is why they're forced to be on sidewalks 🤷‍♂️

[-] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 1 points 1 month ago

standard vehicles, like an automobile?

Yes.

your municipality

No, LOL. The country, and more or less the whole EU.

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

RIP the disabled people who rely on those.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Depends. We have three classes of them here. There is the 6km/h variant for the sidewalk, there is a 25km/h variant for which you need a simple driving licence and insurance that you can use on roads and bike lanes (IIRC), and a 40km/h version where you need a full driving licence and a bigger insurance, for use on the roads.

this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2025

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