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Determinism (lemmy.world)
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[-] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 41 points 2 weeks ago

Fight what exactly? Determinism either is or isnt how the universe works, it isnt like some sort of external force of finite capacity that can be resisted by some application of effort. If it is true, then you have no choice but to act the way something like you would act, and the way humans are wired to think is in terms of choices and the possible outcomes of those choices, even if the choice you make and the thinking that leads you to it is inevitable. If it is not true, then the possibility of making different choices exists, but it doesnt look any different to you because you only get to perceive the result of following one set of them.

The thing about determinism is that while it may be an interesting philosophical exercise, beyond being difficult to maybe impossible to prove or disprove, it isnt really relevant to much. A deterministic universe looks, feels, and acts to us exactly like a nondeterministic one would.

[-] Paradachshund@lemmy.today 17 points 2 weeks ago

I took it to mean fighting against a descent into nihilism.

[-] Signtist@lemm.ee 29 points 2 weeks ago

I never understood the fight against nihilism, as if it's inherently bleak. I came to the conclusion that nothing truly matters a long time ago, but that doesn't keep me from feeling like stuff matters, and doing what matters to me. Subjective meaning can still drive you to pursue and live a good life even while you're aware that objective meaning doesn't exit. Happiness feels good, which is enough for me.

[-] EmpiricalDicktaster 4 points 2 weeks ago

That would make it existentialism

[-] LwL@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

I love nihilism because accepting that nothing inherently matters allows me to focus on the things that I decide matter to me. It also makes it easier for me to accept those things I dislike but am truly powerless to change.

I think I'd be so much unhappier if I was in some constant pursuit of a universal meaning of life, or felt like I had to fulfill some inherent purpose.

[-] Vespair@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

Either existence is a empty nothingness devoid of meaning, or existence is a empty blank canvas upon which we can imbue our own meaning.

[-] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 weeks ago

The truth of determinism is relevant to the most popular conception of free will. That's why this comes up repeatedly. People seem to want themselves to be free from causality itself, because being bound by it makes you not "free", and just going through the motions.

The problem here is the definition of free will itself . Rather than demanding from the universe that your mind be inexplicably free form causality, why not just accept a more useful definition of free will? Such as the ability to make decisions without undue coercion. Vague as that is, it's at least a workable definition.

[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

This meme template usually ends with the like a dog bit, I wouldn't look into it

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[-] Dagnet@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago

Holy shit Mickey, what did you do to Pluto!?

[-] Kowowow@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 weeks ago

This reminds me of that stupid thing in fallout 4 about possibly being a robot essentially and how it was supposed to be some big deal but I never understood what difference it made

[-] last_philosopher@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

There's a lot of assumptions in saying it's just meaningless chemicals

  • That chemicals are meaningless and lacking intriniic value. Seen from the outside they may appear that way, but evidently from the inside it seems quite different.
  • "We" are not some other unseen brain behavior (not a crazy idea since we've never seen consciousness working in the brain)
  • We are within the brain
  • The brain exists at all
  • Any knowledge exists at all (dubious as Mickey points out)
[-] Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

Perish like a dog it is then. There is no tearing down reality without you inside of it.

[-] Pudutr0n@feddit.cl 1 points 2 weeks ago
[-] Deme@sopuli.xyz 8 points 2 weeks ago

Occam's razor defeats Plato's cave. There's no reason to think that the world we experience would be just metaphysical shadows on the wall. The burden of proof is on Mickey's shoulders.

Oh yeah and Cogito Ergo Sum. So there is one bit of definitely provable knowledge.

[-] agent_nycto@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Occam's razor is a rule of thumb not an absolute rule of the universe.

If you go with Cogito Ergo Sum, I think that's the stance Mickey is taking. You only know for sure of your own consciousness, everything else could be a delusion of the senses. You know, like shadows on a cave wall or whatever.

[-] Deme@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yes, and my response to what Mickey said was that why would we think that we're in the cave looking at shadows? Why should I complicate my view of the world with the added baggage of metaphysical idealism when materialism works just fine to explain everything I see? Sure our perception of the world is limited to our senses and measurement techniques, but the scientific framework we've built onto that base appears very consistent and functional with its predictive power. It's definitely not omniscience, but it works.

I only brought up the Cogito argument to point out that Mickey is incorrect in saying that no certain knowledge exists.

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[-] Pudutr0n@feddit.cl 3 points 2 weeks ago

There is no burden of proof. There is only the experience of the here and the now. Everything else is stories.

[-] pcalau12i@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

The decision that your brain's decisions are due to chemical reactions, which itself would be due to chemicals reactions, is self-referential but not circular reasoning.

[-] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Those old cartoons really didn't hold back, huh?

[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago

Or, as I love to say: you feel what you feel, it's what you do with it that matters

[-] DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 2 weeks ago

No, Mickey--I will perish like a duck.

[-] Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org 3 points 2 weeks ago

The universe could just as well be made of only one type of matter. The fact that certain particles attract each other is miraculous in and of itself. It's what facilitates complex matter and ultimately life. It's also a funamental law upon which brains have evolved. It's everything but absurd.

[-] Deme@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I think the usage of the word absurd in this context entails the third definition of the word here: A search engine word definition for the word "absurd". The third entry relates to existential philosophy and the notion that human life and the universe lacks inherent order or meaning.

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 weeks ago
[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

I still think Death said it better in Hogfather.

[-] Supervisor194@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Obviously, Donald will do whatever the chemicals make him do.

[-] Zenith@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

I think a critical part of being a human is the ability for those chemicals to induce such feelings, the ability to wonder and see beauty is something special

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this post was submitted on 25 May 2025
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