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What rubbish ?😂😂😂
The EU is dictating terms now ???
🔥🔥🔥🔥
Amazing photo, collective desperation and cluelessness on the level of "Downfall" but for real.
Starmer is fascinated by the pen.
I love that painting on the wall behind them. It's so damn pretty and well done! Anyone here know anything about it, by any chance?
Haven't Western nations already been applying significant sanctions to Russia? It's pretty clear that hasn't been working, why do they imagine that more of the same will work any better? Oh right, they don't, they just want to look like they're doing something useful.
It’s pretty clear that hasn’t been working
It's pretty clear you never looked into it. The Russian economy is massively strained, they got huge problems due to those sanctions.
That's just the normal state of Russian economy
No doubt, but as a mechanism of applying pressure to get them to stop invading Ukraine, I think you'll have to agree that it's failed miserably. That's what I (and most people) mean by 'working': accomplishing the intended aim. Huge problems or not, the war continues unabated. Why do you imagine doing more of the same would be any more effective?
didn't they try this before?
There is a Russian counter ultimatum, that Trump has enthusiastically embraced as glorious peace breakthrough: Ukraine must go back to resume Istanbul peace talks this week.
Simply not reality focused. Hatred of Russia programmed higher than European security concerns that could be addressed if "root causes of conflict" (US puppeted provocation of war by Ukraine and supporters) are a basis for peace instead of treating ceasefire as opportunity to rearm and train the newly conscripted.
Just as Russia demands demilitarization of Ukraine, Europe needs to demand demilitarization of Russia to avoid their own military buildup at cost of social programs. Europe continuing to demonize Russia, including blaming ceasefire breakdowns as one sided, is not going to get them treated as human. Not that anyone cares, but prolonging the war is more destruction of Ukraine and less favourable peace.
Even if destabilizing Russia is a unanimous/axiomatic goal, there is greater opportunity through giving it peace, and forcing it to transition to a peacetime economy, instead of the massive success/growth it has generated, including exceptional wage growth, during the war.
Europe have already sanctioned Russia multiple times over, what makes them think the threat of sanctions is going to make Putin care this time?
After three glorious years of sanctions that totally crippled... oh wait, achieved nothing. This new batch will definitely work!
"After ~~three~~ glorious..."
8 years + 3 years*
except that western liberals are the villains
right, but you get the idea
for sure, these people really do think they live in a fantasy show
should have been at 'massive' sanctions a couple years ago.
Europe said it did. But these sanctions are super duper massive, I guess.
Double secret probation!
Exactly, we shouldn't even be at this point. Russia should be a windswept wasteland.
If western economic integration actually meant anything then it would've been.
It would be nice if they sanctioned them by using their militaries to stop the invasion and push them out.
This is so embarrassing i feel it from second hand.
Reset conversation
This is so embarrassing i feel it from second hand.
It is so pathetic... I thought Russia was in maximum sanctions for 2 yrs already! These "leaders" do know better though, they just generate these acts with the hope something will get posted on their heavily subsidized media (it has been a decade since any publication can survive without being subsidized).
Russia is desperate to move one, Ukraine still in their delusion, but coming to terms with the reality, US wants to move on and the EU (north only) wondering how to maintain the war flame alive for 4 yrs and hope for a new Biden in 4 yrs. It won´t happen, here, in the US, people are increasingly getting tired of the billions spend abroad even in Israel, let alone in Ukraine (even though it most of that aid is in US weapons and services that Ukraine pays with the funds the EU gives). But yes, Macron does care that Russian-speaking in Donesk that for 11yrs have been disposed of all representation, cut from all social services and bombed daily will rejoin Kyiv like nothing happended.
the EU (north only) wondering how to maintain the war flame alive for 4 yrs and hope for a new Biden in 4 yrs.
Could you elaborate?
Countries like Baltic countries, Germany, Scandinavians and France (their leaders at least) are probably wondering if to simmer the drums till next US election, go all in themselves or change course with the head high. Europeans, rightly so, are not buying it and will not join any armed group even if constricted... and those leaders know it... so the dillenma is either to wait or how to get out. With Trump back, I was hoping, European leaders, in their highly antagonism to Trump, would reverse course, at least with Gaza... but not so... if Trump, does indeed reverse course... my gosh... The EU will be insignificant and a pariah in the global stage for decades to come.
As someone who publicly predicted Trump's wins in both 2016 and 2024 (I live in the most representative county there is!) I can tell you Americans are fed up with war expenditures abroad (even they do benefit the US in the short run!). Specially with the Ukrainian so, even if a Democrat would win in 2028, he/she would not pull off tens of billions on aid to any country... that, it is going likely to be a heavy issue in next elections and even demand a commitment no for massive aid packagers. I think they will even include Israel in the restrictions.
I have no idea why you are getting so many downvotes. You're giving such an accurate description of what's happening in Europe, that I thought you were European. The behavior of our politicians anger me half as much as they disgust and embarrass me. They keep going on as if they are the arbiters of the world and moral guardians, while being neither and are not even addressing the pressing issues of their lost power except for playing Calvin ball where the 3 basic rules are "1. I dictate the rules", "2. All my rules are shall always be considered as free and democratic" and "3. Anyone who disagrees with me is a dictator or in league with one." while the adults in the room have to play along.
I don't think you have a good read on Europeans at least. public sentiment is quite different in different countries, with people in countries closer to Russia being willing to go much further to oppose Russia.
while the average Dutchman probably wouldn't want to fight for their own country, let alone another one, I don't doubt that people in e.g. Poland, the Baltic states or Finland are much more aware of the danger to themselves and their country and more willing to make personal sacrifices.
You know "Poland, the Baltic states or Finland" are not representative of Europe, don´t you? They represent 11% of the EU and 7% in Europe. As someone that witnessed the rise of irrational nationalism in the Balkans, I am fed up with political parties (with the aid of foreign entities) using media to polarize their population against the "monster neighbor" that just want o 'rape your woman'... it is sickening whether in Warsaw, Moscow, Kyiv, Delhi or Tel Avid.
But even in Poland, is there a risk of confrontation with Russia in a foreign land and the overwhelmingly majority of young in Poland will flee overnight. The noise is there, but few actually believe that Russia wants to roll tanks in Warsaw. Russia made clear for a decade already that their only drive is no NATO inference in Ukraine and that is it and made several fierce statements continuously, last one being a letter 2 months to NATO before the invasion. Russia did not even wanted Dombas region, those Russian speakers would be far more utilized within a democratic Ukraine since any constitutional change would require their approval so the facto maintaining Ukraine constitutional neutral. After the coup that disfranchised millions of residents in the East of Ukraine... the Moscow equation changed.
I don’t doubt that people in e.g. Poland,
You might start then, as a Pole i could tell you that normal people here don't want to fight for the Ukraine either. Hell, even though intensive media brainwashing no one even seriously believe Russia will attack us (well, maybe except the usual tinfoil brains).
You might start then, as a Pole i could tell you that normal people here don’t want to fight for the Ukraine either. Hell, even though intensive media brainwashing no one even seriously believe Russia will attack us (well, maybe except the usual tinfoil brains).
There is no Russian desire to rule over Poland or Kyiv/Lyiv because no one likes them there, and there is no benefit and only costs. Destroying those regions under the principle that the only good purpose for a warmongering crackhead is an irradiated exclusion zone, on the other hand...
The claim that Russia wants their territory is propaganda used to justify attacks/diminishment of Russia.
even though intensive media brainwashing no one even seriously believe Russia will attack us (well, maybe except the usual tinfoil brains)
I'm getting flashbacks to Jan-Feb 2022. That's what people thought about Ukraine despite intelligence reports warning that Putin is making moves.
Of course, Poland is in EU and NATO, so it's definitely in a better position, but keep in mind that all deterrents have limits — as we speak there's a full-on war being fought between two nuclear powers.
The promises of an alliance treaty are, at the end of the day, just that: promises. Posturing to scare off potential attackers. Just because we've never seen someone actually call that bluff, doesn't mean it will never happen.
A guy like Putin could gamble that NATO countries won't send troops to Poland because they'll make similar calculations as towards Ukraine: that it's not worth risking nuclear war. He already sees how NATO countries right now are behaving, pussyfooting around giving aid to Ukraine, so he could believe they will approach Article 5 with the same limp attitude. Especially now that USA is talking about leaving NATO and antagonizing Europe like never before.
Plus, all the "why should we help Ukraine" type rhetoric coming out of the European MAGA-aligned sphere is easily adaptable to Poland: "Why should we help Poland? Just because they're in NATO? I'm not a globalist, I look after the interest of my own country first because I'm a patriot. I don't want to send my people to fight NATO's wars. I refuse to die for the globalists!"
This is exactly what the far right is speaking here.
Then there must be pushback from the people who know better. Raising the alarm is not brainwashing — the brainwashing is when MAGA types tell people there's no threat.
Also, Europe needs to get its shit together and stop pulling punches with regard to helping Ukraine.
this post was submitted on 10 May 2025
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