Russia releases archives exposing Latvian Waffen-SS atrocities in WWII : worldnews

[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 day ago

Good article from forward on the existing Nazi collaborator monuments in Latvia, and their participation in the Holocaust.

[+] Jimius@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

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[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Percentage-wise Latvia had more % of population in SS than any other country including Germany so i think the "Latvian" part did played at least some role.

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 days ago

Most of the Baltics and especially ukraine had large percentages of nazis.
Nothing has changed.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Ukraine actually had tiny % of nazis in WW2. It was like 250000 or so nazis compared to at least 7 million Ukrainian partisans and Red Army soldiers. It's just that west after war absorbed, coddled and promoted the nazi survivors and after 1991 send them back with a huge propaganda bucks, and in 2014 helped them organize the coup.

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago

It must've been that they were so active I got the impression there were more back then.
Also that there is an unhealthy amount of them in our time.
But thanks for correcting me.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago

It must’ve been that they were so active I got the impression there were more back then.

Well, they have access to the biggest and most pervasive propaganda machine in the history of mankind so their narration is the one that prevail in large part of the world.

Like the mere fact that a literal Waffen SS soldier participating in many atrocities was given applause in western parliament and that wasn't met with unanimous condemnation and collapse of said parliament.

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[-] a9cx34udP4ZZ0@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

So Russia is setting the framework for their next invasion? Lord knows if/when Ukraine wraps up, they have to immediately start another war or the public will start asking questions about their non-existent economy.

[-] passenger@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

If someone isn't aware, RT is Russian state propaganda. Just wanted to emphasize that. Not saying all their stuff is false. But that's how they do propaganda, mix something true in with what is the current info war agenda. Be cautious

[-] marathon@thelemmy.club 3 points 21 hours ago

Actually ingenious, this kind of warning would be more suitable applied to the Western Commercial Main Stream Media, not an actual news site. This guy complaining is a NAFO with a vested interest in seeing the war continue. So, be cautious of wolves like this wearing sheep's clothing!

[-] passenger@lemm.ee 2 points 21 hours ago

Bullshit. Spoken like a troll factory employee. Slava ukraini.

[-] marathon@thelemmy.club 2 points 21 hours ago

Thanks for proving me right! LOL

[-] falx@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 days ago

And yet Kremlin can't stop from propping up the fascist Legionnaires in Romania "for democracy".

[-] marathon@thelemmy.club 3 points 21 hours ago

If supporting what the people have voted for is wrong, then count me in. That's called democracy in action. Not giving a hoot what the elitists want is appropriate for votes in Romania. Guess you didn't like the results, eh?

[-] falx@lemmy.ml 1 points 19 hours ago

I am fully against the constitutional court's decision. It was undemocratic. As stated in other messages, I meant here the support from Kremlin for the fascist paramilitary group, "Vlad the Impaler".

Had Georgescu been allowed, democracy in Romania would be dead. But that is another story.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago

This is what liberals describe as "whataboutism".

[-] falx@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

How so? It's the same subject, Russia. The same object, fascist ideology. On one side they condemn it, on the other they prop it up.

Had I said a different subject or object, I would have agreed. But here I need you to help me out, I don't see whataboutsim.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

No. The subject is the Latvian SS.

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

LOL the western propaganda press suddenly quit reporting about that 'Russian influence' lie when it was proven it was the Romanian liberals who did it.
You should keep up with the lies you parrot.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago

I love how you're getting downvoted for stating factual information that's been reported in mainstream western media https://www.politico.eu/article/investigation-ties-romanian-liberals-tiktok-campaign-pro-russia-candidate-calin-georgescu/

[-] falx@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

Never stated Kremlin was the only one backing Georgescu, liberals also had their role to play in this farce. But I meant the "Vlad the Impaler" paramilitary fascist group with direct ties to Moscow https://www.rferl.org/a/romania-vlad-the-impaler-group-russia-coup-plot-treason/33348058.html

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Oh hey, weird how this wasn't a problem until Georgescu started running. He was in Romanian politics and even in the government for a long time last I checked, so clearly Romanian regime didn't have a problem with fascist groups before. And all of a sudden they started caring when it became convenient for them. Seems to me that it's not fascism that's the problem for them.

[-] falx@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

Yes, I fully agree that the government tolerated these fringe groups for too long. There is no excuse for that. They suddenly gained visibility recently, and part of the group of actors involved in that rise in notoriety is Moscow.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago

Again, it's very clear that it's not fascism that the government takes issue with.

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[-] falx@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

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[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago

Radio Free Europe?
I'm just not going to comment and let everyone laugh at your source.

[-] falx@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

AP news: https://apnews.com/article/romania-russia-treason-coup-plot-detain-diicot-437213648450f20031f76b53266ce50c

Wiki in Romanian about the group https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comandamentul_Vlad_%C8%9Aepe%C8%99

Some more Romanian sources: https://newsweek.ro/actualitate/doi-membri-ai-gruparii-vlad-tepes-arestati-alti-patru-lasati-acasa-sub-control-judiciar

https://www.gandul.ro/actualitate/negocierile-dintre-membrii-gruparii-comandamentul-vlad-tepes-si-moscova-in-mai-o-sa-porneasca-agitatie-ce-s-a-vorbit-despre-calin-georgescu-20458493

https://www.stiripesurse.ro/ce-este-si-cand-a-fost-infiintat-comandamentul-vlad-tepes-condus-de-general-in-varsta-de-101-ani-cum-arata-planul-de-reorganizare-al-lui-radu-theodoru_3604855.html

Discredit those too, please

And then, discredit their own admission of the facts while you're at it: https://www.stiripesurse.ro/prosecutors-release-report-on-getia-treason-case-intercepted-conversation-excerpts-included_3605815.html

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago

Discredit those too, please

I certainly will.

I'm supposed to read Romanian now? Did you have too many Ursus or palinka? The only one not in Romanian is the garbage and biased western source AP.
Even that says: "suspected of" and "allegedly".
The normal tactics to throw accusations WITHOUT any PROOF.
When you're going to make claims you need proof, not this BS.

This is just made up shit to justify their illegal actions of not honoring the election result by the US puppets.
And there certainly isn't an 'admission'

[-] dzsimbo@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

Hi, sorry to butt in on this thread, but this part almost feels malicious:

I'm supposed to read Romanian now?

Especially in an age of automatic translation, this sentence just broadcasts ill intent. While you cannot know what allegances that specific Romanian outlet has, it feels strangely biased you doing all this under a Russia Today article. Also those jabs, man. 'Did you drink too much?'

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

You do notice the article from RT is in English right?

[-] falx@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

Yes, you are supposed to read Romanian if you're arguing with a Romanian about events happening in their own country.

The made up shit I see so far in this thread is handwaving dismissal of sources without any back up whatsoever. What sources do you present that contradicts what I claimed so far, aside from laughing at sources dismissively?

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago

Again you have no sources, just allegations.
Sources prove stuff, if not it's worthless

This is how you do it:
https://www.politico.eu/article/investigation-ties-romanian-liberals-tiktok-campaign-pro-russia-candidate-calin-georgescu/
"The center-right Romanian National Liberal Party paid for a campaign" etc, notice that there's no alledgedly or suspected?
It gives details
who specifically did it: PNL-employee firm, Kensington Communication
how they did it: The firm paid 130 influencers co-opted on the FameUp platform

All backed up by a declassified document of the CSAT and in a report of the Expert Forum.
https://www.presidency.ro/files/userfiles/Documente%20CSAT/Document%20CSAT%20MAI.pdf

That is how you reason and make an argument.
Now admit it was the liberals, that they shamelessly blamed the Russians and your vasal state illegaly corrupted the elections.

[-] falx@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

We may be arguing past each other.

The proof you provided, I never denied. I am painfully well aware of the liberal psy-op.

My claim: Kremlin agents supported a fascist nationalist group (that also consider Georgescu the real president) called "Vlad Tepes" in a plan to overthrow the government. This is still not refuted by anyone. The only sources I found in English you dismissed out of hand, while the investigation in Romania is still ongoing.

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

. This is still not refuted by anyone. The only sources

We certainly are talking past eachother.
There is no use if you take claims, allegations and suspicions, which is the only thing your article provides as a source.
Speculations and proof are not the same.
Nobody needs to answer to baseless accusations, certainly not believe them.
When that investigation is still going on you certainly can not say anything is proof.

Kremlin agents supported a fascist nationalist group (that also consider Georgescu the real president) called “Vlad Tepes” in a plan to overthrow the government

I'm sorry but that sounds like a wild made up conspiracy theory.
The same tactics they tried with the Trump-Steele dossier, also based on nothing, with the only purpose to slander him as a Russian asset, even more ridiculous than your claim.
These tactics unfortunately work sometimes.
You should learn to be carefull and investigate everything and find sources for everything.
I will end it here.
I hope you don't get a fascist, and certainly not a US puppet as is the case now.
The US regime is planning to build a huge base there and if you're not careful you might be played by them and thrown to the lions.
They are not there to help you or protect you despite what they say.
I have Romanian friends, very nice people.
The country and food is nice too.
Don't want to see it destroyed for the benefit of these assholes.
Thanks for listening, and dissagreeing without arguing or insults.
Have a good night.

[-] falx@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

Once the investigation comes to a close, I hope you don't mind if I drop a more fact based source here, if I don't forget, and if one will exist in English.

From the current Romanian reports, some facts emerged that are no longer allegations, like the 2 Russian agents being kicked out of the country and the leaked conversations between them and leaders of the "Vlad Tepes" group, main reason for their expulsion.

Thank you for taking your time with this random thread, in any case. And for your willingness to meet me on middle ground. Truth needs to prevail.

[-] dzsimbo@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

You really gonna call sources into question on an RT thread?? Would I be going too far as stating RT is to Russia what RFE is to the US??

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

This is a conversation that went into a different direction and is in no way related to the RT article.
If someone uses RFE, VOA or any other one of those pure propaganda tools that as a source I certainly am going to question them.
There is no reason why I shouldn't.

[-] dzsimbo@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

Definitely question the source. Even after writing I realized RT is more akin to hollywood propaganda than RFE. On the best of days could we compare RT to AP, I guess.

That leaves my other point standing. I understand we are all people and are emotional about such matters, but you countered the Romanian source with a jab, then drove the point home by attacking their state of mind. An emotional, triggering response to a friggin link. Deepening divide, operating with shame.

Why do you use these tools of shaming when plain truth is on your side? Why did you not go through the romanian sources with a trusted translator service and reply with glaring problems instead of questioning their sobriety?

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

We are talking about serious stuff in times that can lead to WW3.
I am human and can get emotional about it.
Throwing a 'source' at me from RFE, an entity which is universally known as a US propaganda tool could in itself be seen as an insult and questioning my intelligence.
Besides that, my jab in return was quite mild.
Especially considering the vile insult that get thrown at me constantly by others if I dare question the western narrative.
That puts me in a defensive state already.
Regardless of all this I ended the conversation with:

Thanks for listening, and dissagreeing without arguing or insults. Have a good night.

We ended on good terms, he is OK with it, so should you. You made your point.

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