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[-] gimmelemmy@lemmy.world 1 points 32 minutes ago
[-] reksas@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 hours ago

Its interesting idea but i wonder if humans are capable of running it beyond so small groups that it wouldnt matter. It would require huge amount of planning and creative thinking to get anarchy working in such way it would benefit everyone and to mitigate its problems.

Then there is also the problem of our current system influencing the new system. Lets say we manage somehow overthrow the current opression and start implementing somekind of anarchy that has been planned in such way it functions beneficially for everyone. By its nature, there couldnt be any authority that defines what anarchy is by its core since it would be up to the people themselves.

I can imagine anarchy easily fragmenting into pieces and then some pieces gaining more support than others and then we would have several competing ideas. Ultimately one would win and others might or might not survive too. And then we would have new ruling system that is probably not anarchy. I dont mean this would happen immediately but eventually. So there would need to be somekind of defensive system against that that would prevent harmful ideas from gaining power, but how to make something like that without it becoming oppressive? And how do you restrict anarchy in the first place since the whole point is there is no central authority? And if you try to have authority that isnt central, you end up with multiple ones that become central authority within their area of influence.

Maybe i'm not as well versed on anarchy as i should to be throwing these thoughts around, but these are some thoughts i have on the subject. As far as i know, anarchism is that people make the rules themselves instead of there being central authority that tells them what to do.

So ultimately anarchism is idea that would require a lot of planning and researching to be even considered worth trying if you want to implement it in controlled way. And i dont see any government allowing such planning to happen since it would be direct threat to them if you manage to create something that is worth trying. And very likely if they still were to allow it, they would just want to influence your work in such way they gain more power from it at the expense of others. And if we had some government that would want it because they want what is good for everyone, then wouldnt that government type be what you wanted to have with anarchy in the first place? Anarchy for sake of itself doesnt seem very useful.

And if you want to implement it "naturally" by just removing all authorities and allowing people to settle things by themselves, i think we can all imagine how that would go.

When I think about it that way, anarchism seems more like "initialization" or starting point where you start building something more complex. Everything we currently have is founded on anarchism afterall, at least i dont think first humans could have had any other system. You cant really hold on to it because it will change either by the people or by the power that wants to preserve it.

Now this turned into kind of an essay

[-] zlatiah@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago
  • What led to the Haymarket Massacre, which might have been the main catalyst behind the 8-hour workday... So I cannot hate it out of principle
  • Seems reasonable but I don't know how to actually implement it
  • For some reason is more associated with Anarcho-Capitalism rather than the other variants, which I thought was... Interesting
[-] OmegaLemmy@discuss.online 1 points 2 hours ago

At its best it would be the most well functioning democracy possible, at its worst it would give way into centralisation (and infighting)

I don't think anarchist states are impossible, but I do think it wouldn't be as comfortable of a life compared to something more centralised.

[-] Baaahb@feddit.nl 1 points 2 hours ago

It would. An anarchist system requires participation at all ends from just about everyone. If you forfeith your vote once, you'll forfeight it again, not because of a conscious choice, but because you empowered others to make your choice for you in the first place.

Anarchy is not about comfort. Its about freedom, as nebulous as that term is, and freedom, as has been said many many times, is not free.

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 10 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Anarchy sounds good to me then someone asks "Who'd fix the sewers?"

edit: This is lyrics from The Dead Kennedy’s “Where Do You Draw the Line?”

[-] Triasha@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

Anarchist response would be "people who want functioning sewers, which should be everybody."

Yeah it's a dirty job. So is wiping your ass. Does someone need to threaten you to wipe your ass? Take a shower? When your toilet breaks at home do you shrug and just shit on the bathroom floor?

No, you fix the toilet. Same with the sewers.

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

Ok and who does that end up being?

[-] Triasha@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Whoever steps up first. For a sewer, probably several people. What's your point?

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

Most aren’t capable ir willing to do this work without substantial compensation above and beyond what most jobs provide.

[-] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 2 hours ago

I think you may underestimate the impact of sewage backing up into your home :D

You are right though. Tragedy of the commons is a catch22. When everything is everyone's problem, nothing is anyone's problem. This occurs in EVERY political system though, and they still function.

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

Yes, capitalist republics compensate for this by paying others more for these jobs. Authoritarian states push people into these jobs. I’m not sure how this gets addressed in an anarchistic society in practical terms.

[-] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

I'm of the opinion that an anarchist society is probably the wrong way, but incorporating anarchist ideals into things, such as "no really you actually are responsible for everyTHING (not everyone) around you" and "you are the only person who is capable of being responsible for your own choices, opinions and decisions." and "consider the consequences of your actions before doing what you are told" and "a just hierarchy is one you are free to join and leave as required, and without coersion", we can actually improve even our current system.

[-] SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

Someone doesn't understand what anarchism is. Opinion discarded. Please read a book and return.

[-] DerArzt@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago

This is the opportunity to share resources and give them a direction to head, and you missed it.

[-] sarchar@programming.dev 1 points 4 hours ago

Probably the people who own the sewers.

Let me rephrase the question, who will fix the potholes?

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

It’s a Dead Kennedy’s song and do people own the sewers in anarchist societies?

[-] y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 hours ago

who will fix the potholes?

Make the libertarians do it! /s

Idk, ive fixed a pothole or two that bothered me near home, but yeah, I'm not doing a whole city lol

I think though that once people realize the onus is on them to fix things, people will start to fix things. Provided of course, that they have the means and ability to do so.

And then, there are still companies which can be hired to do these things, provided someone is willing to pay them

[-] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 hour ago

Thats something I find fascinating. People hear anarchy and assume the end of commerce because it would inherently mean an end to capitalism, presuming we arent talking about some weird ancap philosophy that I can't make sense.

Commerce has happened for forever, and changing forms of government will not change that.

Thats not the part I find fascinating though, its that people discussing anarchy tend to cede this argument without a fight.

If you do so, an implied argument of anarchy gets lost: "there is no such thing as unskilled labor."

This isnt generally considered a point for anarchy, but it is. In an anarchist system, you have the agency to decide your role in your community. This means you WILL specialize, as we all do as humans; even the generalists of us aren't generalists at everything. I for one would make a shitty translator, as i only speak English.

There would need to be some means of getting labor done by someone who knew how to do it, this ought to feel natural to most of us anyway... I mean I assume you guys try to help your friends at stuff you are good at that they aren't. I similarly assume you're generally compensated for this behavior, even if it isnt with currency as we generally consider it.

[-] NaNin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 5 hours ago

A lot of people think it means total chaos, but it really just means an opposition to hierarchy.

People living comfortable lives will rationalize any critique of the system away, even if that comfort is built upon emiseration and exploitation.

[-] communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz 14 points 7 hours ago

ITT: Nobody has any idea what any anarchist philosopher ever said or believed and simply thinks it means no rules

They then strut victoriously, thinking they are smarter than every anarchist philosopher who has ever existed because they know that rules matter in a society, not realizing that no anarchist thinker has ever said "let's just have no rules or organization and just see how it goes based on the vibes"

[-] Zero22xx 3 points 5 hours ago

When I was younger, I believed that it was an ideal worth striving for. Now I don't have that much faith in people anymore and I think that the best you can ask for is to try to live life your way and stay true to your beliefs and morals as best you can, according to whatever circumstances that you've been given.

[-] Sivecano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 6 hours ago

People calling themselves anarchists seem to reliably be less of a red flag than when they call themselves communists.

I think there's a lot of sentiment to sympathize with and a lot of ideas to learn about.

Implementation of anarchism seems hard and maybe sometimes a bit naïve, but on the other hand I don't actually understand the specifics nor is there any one opinion.

Anarvhism refers to a vlass of ideologies moreso than any one in specific.

[-] remon@ani.social 3 points 8 hours ago

I thought it was quite cool when I was a teenager. Then I grew up.

[-] SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

Aka you heard about it, did no reading on theory and slowly the capitalist culture you lived in burned your brain down. That's what happens when you don't have any actual education about something.

[-] remon@ani.social 1 points 3 hours ago

No, I'm quite aware of what it is ... and concluded it to be a terrible idea.

[-] SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Guys, he's quite aware. All anarchist philosophy is dead! The great Concluder has spoken!

[-] remon@ani.social 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Of course not. There is still plenty of teenagers and homeless punks around.

[-] SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Guys, he actually doesn't know about anarchism. Bro nobody mention the zapatistas or WW2 Catalonia Spain to this guy. George Orwell, more like George nobody amiright? Bro actually thinks anarchism is when you're homeless.

[-] remon@ani.social 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Yes, reapeating "you don't now about anarchism" over and over again is a great argument. (I really mean it, you don't got much else to work with).

[-] SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Bro didn't even read the last comment. Your man's is coping, in shambles.

Bro thinks this is an argument lol, nah big dawg it's a belittlement.

[-] Wahots@pawb.social 13 points 12 hours ago

It seems foolish and young to me. Same as libertarian rules or rule by religious doctrine. None of that shit works. Just shiny little playthings to keep people distracted from real and genuine problems that cause an existential threat to all species living on earth.

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this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2025
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