I get that WhatsApp is not a platform to use if you care about your privacy, but WTF is "Delta Chat" and why would I switch to it rather than say Signal?
I also prefer Signal, but I think the point here is that Delta Chat is decentralized.
Imo it's already difficult enough to convince friends and family to use Signal. Delta Chat would be even more difficult to pull off.
So is Matrix and it's way more popular. But recommending anything other than Signal at this point is a waste. Fediverse chat is a more complex conversion for many who are still in the connect via phone number stage for chat. Fediverse is an easier story for other platforms.
As I've understood, Delta chat is based on the IMAP protocol and uses the infrastructure of your email provider. Thus, it uses no own server infrastructure, but has the also the downsides of the protocol and some issues with many email providers.
Wikipedia.de - Delta Chat (no English version available yet)
some issues with many email providers
This turned out to be the deal-breaker for me. GMX kept locking me out of my account because of the DeltaChat messages. They're (of course) full of cyphertext and to email providers this must look a look like spam.
The open-to-abuse nature of email claims yet another victim.
Because delta chat is using an open protocol (email) and you can run your own servers meaning it is decentralized unlike Signal. Also it is actually anonymous unlike Signal, so you don’t need to give anyone your phone number and people can’t find where you live just by knowing your username.
Because delta chat is using an open protocol (email)
So not an instant messaging protocol but rather a technology that the whole world would do differently if they could go back in time?
If you use your email, it's anonymous but you have to use your email which is almost never anonymous and has your phone number. Also you sometimes have to "Create an app-specific password" that delta chat will use and gain full access to your email account, which is way worse than signal or any other application. And for some accounts, you have to use your real password, and maybe disable the spam protection.
Am I wrong somewhere or is that a really stupid idea?
If you struggle making a new email address, this is not for you.
Which applies to 99% of people making Delta Chat not a viable alternative to WhatsApp.
The Fediverse has the same problem that Linux, and Open Source in general, struggles with. The barriers to entry and network effects work against widespread adoption.
Until technology is packaged in a way that makes it dead simple and/or unavoidable, people won’t make the effort to move en masse.
So XMPP?
Should definitely be the go-to
you don’t need to give anyone your phone number
You do not need to give your number anymore to use Signal.
You cannot make a Signal account without phone number so that’s not true.
But we are not obliged to share it with our correspondents.
Yeah I’d rather not share my identity though. Seems like an odd requirement for a “private” messenger
you need a phone number to make an account. but you can chat with others without divulging your phone number
Unregistered users can't chat, so a number must be divulged to Signal, as OP said.
Frankly it's the first time I hear about Delta chat
Did anyone tell the WhatsApp users?
Doesn't delta use email under the hood, an insecure protocol?
You're better off using something like Matrix, XMPP, SimpleX or Signal.
The protocol doesn’t really matter when you send encrypted messages over it like Delta Chat. Signal is not private nor decentralized and SimpleX doesn’t have encrypted group chats last time I tried
The protocol doesn’t really matter when you send encrypted messages over it like Delta Chat
Maybe. My comment was based off of what i understood from the website
Signal is not private
Could you elaborate on this? haven't heard of this point (is it due to the jurisdiction on a 5 eyes country?)
SimpleX doesn’t have encrypted group chats last time I tried
It actually does now. It's a very solid choice i'd say :)
You need a phone number to sign up which requires identification in most countries.
Also anyone who knows your username can ping where you are at any time: https://gist.github.com/hackermondev/45a3cdfa52246f1d1201c1e8cdef6117
You are confusing privacy with anonymity. You aren't anonymous because your user is linked to a phone number, but your communications are private due to how their encryption works.
On the location attack: it is a matter of configuration and your location will be as ambiguous as thousands of miles.
Email? So its just encrypted SMS?
Might come down to the metadata, then, like SFTP vs FTPES or GET vs POST.
Never heard of DeltaChat why not signal??
It's a good one (Signal as well, though). My favorite design decision was to tie it into the email ecosystem, so if anyone tries to block it, they will have to block email, which their business buddies won't be happy about.
Some more here:
Because Signal is not decentralized nor anonymous
Not federated, but definitely anonymous. All Signal messages are E2EE, and Signal can't even access your messages. They literally have a page where they list every time they've been asked by the government to give info, and they can't. https://signal.org/bigbrother/
Wait that’s really funny
I've tried a ton, and DeltaChat came close, but there is no edit option for messages, since under the hood, it uses email. The apps on both iPhone and Android also had issues with notifications. I convinced a few family members and friends to use it and then had to convince them again to move to Signal. Lost a few of them in the process.
The point of my story is to say... If you think you'll have a hard time convincing people to get off WhatsApp/Texting, just go to Signal. It is much more mainstream and at least it isn't Facebook.
so I found it interesting and checked it out. the protocol is all well and good but the problem is social. I'm simply not going to send people my delta chat Id and ask them to message me there instead if they have delta chat installed. I had the same problem with session messenger.
when I meet someone irl I'm trading phone numbers. not asking if they have app X installed.
this might be useful for open source projects where you can use ur delta chat id instead of ur email. but it's not something I would use unless it's a requirement to join some community I wanted to.
the problem signal solves by tieing accounts to your phone number is contact discovery. thanks to user IDs you no longer have to share your phone number with people u want to chat with, and can only share your user id
plus signal guarantees the metadata is encrypted. is the same true for delta chat?
I'm resigned to friends and family being almost impossible to get off WhatsApp. Despite being Meta it is also quite difficult to enshittify. If they manage it, I might be able start a conversation but until then it has to stay.
For everything else Fediverse related I'm using Matrix as most Lemmy business happens there (Lemmy uses it for secure DMs so it makes sense). I will try and move people across from other chat platforms to Matrix on an ad hoc basis.
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration)
