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Hey all

Today, I am thrilled to share two significant developments with you that will determine our shared future.

Firstly, the issue of donations. Since the inception of this instance, your most frequent request has been the ability to make contributions to support my initiative. While initially, I had never intended to accept donations, I've come to realize the value this brings in ensuring our platform's sustainability. In response to your requests, within the next week, I will be introducing several options for those of you who wish to donate. I want to emphasize that these donations are entirely optional and will directly support our instance's operational necessities - dedicated hardware, colocation fees, email services, and more.

The second announcement needs a full disclosure: it could be an extraordinary idea or potentially not so. Since the beginning of this instance, I've seen a number of insightful posts, recommendations, and ideas that the community has put forward, often superior to what I could have conceptualized myself. Even our instance's name was born from one of your suggestions.

Frequently, I'm approached by users seeking clarity on our rules and guidelines or expressing their thoughts on existing rules. In reflecting upon this, it became clear to me that I've been attempting to determine what's best for the community. But who am I to make these decisions? Just two weeks ago, I was a user among you all. Hence, I'm moving away from the traditional role of decision-making.

Instead, I want to hand over the reins of decision-making to you - the community. I'm excited to announce the creation of a community called agora where you can express your desires for the future of this instance. It's up to you to come together, discuss, and reach a consensus. If you wish to add, remove, or modify a rule, make a post, garner support from other members, and I'll implement the change. This invitation extends beyond our immediate community - I welcome input from everyone across the fediverse. Again to be clear, I gave an example of modifying rules but this applies to anything that I have the ability to do on this instance.

As the instance owner, I only have one caveat to add - any decisions made should not jeopardize the instance's existence or result in legal complications. Aside from that, I'm eager to see where this new direction takes us.

Thank you for your ongoing support, creativity, and engagement.

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[-] Contextual_Idiot@sh.itjust.works 114 points 1 year ago

We're going to end up with sexy John Oliver posts, aren't we?

All kidding aside, I think this is a great idea. I would put in another caveat though, that only users from this instance can vote for rule changes. But we should definitely invite ideas from everyone across the fediverse.

[-] Trekman10@sh.itjust.works 46 points 1 year ago

Also, Part of why I joined this instance was of the chill direction if the mod admin team, I hope they continue that work and that this doesn't result in a deterioration of user experience because they gave up and handed it over to all of us.

[-] Potato@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 year ago

I expect most of us are here for the chill vibe. That should be reflected in the outcomes at the agora. Assuming it's local only.

[-] StarNyte@sh.itjust.works 30 points 1 year ago

I would put in another caveat though, that only users from this instance can vote for rule changes.

I started a vote on that.

Of course next up I'll poll for creating a senate and then poll them to elect me Supreme Chancellor. /s

[-] Contextual_Idiot@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago

Hold up, HOLD UP. Do you love democracy?

~r/prequelmemes~ ~has~ ~infected~ ~my~ ~brain.~

~I~ ~feel~ ~dirty.~

[-] Trekman10@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago

Damn we gotta get a prequel memes community set up over here if there isn't one already!

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[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago

You may joke, but that can be a problem with approaches like this. I like the idea in general, but it relies on a community that is reasonable and forward thinking.

There should be some council or something which also mitigates the worst impulses of the community. They would provide some general direction.

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[-] Hanabie@sh.itjust.works 48 points 1 year ago

I can't say I'm particularly thrilled about decision making by committee. I'd feel a lot more reassured if I knew the server in good and competent hands, rather than a "mob rules" system of governance. I'll certainly prepare to move elsewhere if it becomes clear that the instance moves in a direction I'd feel uncomfortable with (such as overmoderation or willy-nilly defederation that'd rob me of content).

[-] zarquon@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 year ago

I'm pretty worried we will end up with more of an HOA then a democracy.

Not sure we can get the sort of voting going that will attract more then the local busy bodies.

[-] Rutty@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago
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[-] ahoy@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

and we don't want bots pushing someones agenda

[-] Stijn@lemmy.antemeridiem.xyz 46 points 1 year ago

Is it just me or is the overal vibe here on lemmy incredibly positive ?

[-] Swarming@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago

It's a really nice change of pace. Reddit can be such an unpleasant place outside of posts about cats or food or whatever. Silly stuff like that.

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[-] wccrawford@sh.itjust.works 35 points 1 year ago

I think this is a well-intentioned but horrible idea. I'd much rather have a benevolent dictator who is willing to listen to suggestions than someone who is controlled by whatever majority of users is voting today.

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[-] kukkurovaca@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 year ago

It’s up to you to come together, discuss, and reach a consensus. If you wish to add, remove, or modify a rule, make a post, garner support from other members, and I’ll implement the change. This invitation extends beyond our immediate community - I welcome input from everyone across the fediverse. Again to be clear, I gave an example of modifying rules but this applies to anything that I have the ability to do on this instance.

@TheDude@sh.itjust.works what constitutes "consensus"? A majority, a supermajority? 100% buy-in on most important topics is simply not on the table, and setting a bar too high for action is tantamount to predetermining that action will not be taken.

(I have no problem with the tyranny of the admin, either, as long as it's clear what direction the site is headed in so I know whether to stick around or not.)

[-] Whooping_Seal@sh.itjust.works 25 points 1 year ago

Agora (ἀγορά) is a great name for a community! I'm looking forward to seeing the posts in it.

I do have a question about the donations. Some projects/sites have a donation "goal" to keep a project going for a certain amount of time. Will you be doing something similar? Along the lines of a goal of X amount of $CAD to maintain the instance's running costs for one year.

[-] TheDude@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

Yes this is a great idea. I will definitely be doing this.

[-] sweeny@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 year ago

The dude abides. I don't know about you, but I take comfort in that

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[-] Rossel@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 year ago

This is a great step towards a sustainable future for the instance, amazing work.

[-] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's a phenomenal idea. We won't let you down.

[-] mikeycfuckinup@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 year ago

Interested to see how agora works out this is good stuff!

[-] relicax@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

I haven't been across a lot of the discussions, but if this continues to grow and donations increase, have there been talk of founding a non-profit?

[-] annegreen@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think the biggest reason in favour of doing so would be that this would provide oversight and accountability for donations. I for one don’t feel entirely comfortable donating when I don’t know how the funds will be used.

Another potential reason would be to have multiple levels of democratized power. For instance, guests of the Agora might have no decision-making power, users some decision-making power, and members (having paid a one-time membership fee) some more decision-making power. Of course, that kind of structure assumes a decently large scale of organization.

If it comes to incorporating as a not-for-profit, I’ve got some experience with not-for-profits, and would be open to helping incorporate.

[-] thirdorbital@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago

I agree with the spirit of this 100% and will support any way I can. I only hope the implementation is free of trolls, bots, and other bad actors.

[-] chetchaka@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Community-voted rules are a nice idea, but you need to have at least veto power, as bad actors may propose and vote-brigade intentionally exploitable rules or rules that marginalize vulnerable communities.

Use your best judgment to protect your community against those who desire bringing hatred and abuse. Just be prepared to explain the reasoning behind your decisions, and be prepared for vote-brigading (however unlikely it may be) when you veto.

[-] Eezyville@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

Maybe we should create a constitution that all other rules are based on. This document should outline the core values of this instance and any rules created that would violate it would become void. The constitution would not be ruled but guidelines for rules.

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[-] skrttskrtt911@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

If you haven't heard of it before, you should definitely check out backed.by. It's a web 3 version of Patreon that's privacy focused and has lower fees. The more we pull away from web 2 platforms like reddit and Patreon, the weaker that ecosystem will get

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 year ago

This is a beautiful idea. I continue to be impressed with how you're handling this place.

[-] raspeary@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago

sounds like an excellent idea in theory, hopefully it's the same in practice!

[-] Potato@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'd back a patreon supporting the instance. No problem.

[-] boogers19@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
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[-] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago

Out of curiosity, will you be pocketing the excess of donations over any running costs? Because I think we all understand that profit motives can introduce corruption (see how Reddit changed with VC profit motives). If I may offer a suggestion, would you be willing to donate any excess in your donations to other Lemmy instances for the health of the fediverse in general? Or perhaps distribute some of those donations to compensate moderators for key communities on your instance?

[-] boopeditandnow@sh.itjust.works 39 points 1 year ago

What is excess now may be needed later. I'd rather have it stashed away in case there are unexpected server expenses or something.

[-] Tempiz@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 year ago

+1 here. If growth slows and donations drop, the instance needs some savings to continue operating, or if another server upgrade is needed with a large capital expense. Not everything is OpEx.

[-] sneakyninjapants@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago

Maybe it would be a good practice to keep a cap of say +2 years projected running expenses (as an example). If operating costs go up and funds start to run out call for some more donations.

[-] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 38 points 1 year ago

I don't agree with the assumption that providing an amount of donations above the running costs would inherently introduce corruption. I trust TheDude.

I don't think it's appropriate to redirect donations from our users to other servers.

Distributing some of the donations to compensate moderators of communities on this instance is something I could get behind.

[-] MisterMoo@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago

+1

I hate the idea that if someone makes any money they become corrupt.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago
[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

Do you have any money? Are you corrupt?

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[-] annegreen@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago

I agree that we shouldn’t assume corruption if TheDude starts receiving any funds, but I think it would be beneficial to have clear expectations about how donations are being used. If it’s clear that excess funds go straight into TheDude’s pockets, great. Let anyone who wants to donate go for it. But I wouldn’t want anyone to donate thinking that they’re supporting server costs when they’re actually just tipping someone. Whichever way it goes, it just needs to be clear.

Yes. Transparency is the key word. For example at the end of each quarter there could be a post saying that the donations were $X, running costs $Y. If costs are higher this should unsensitize people to donate more. If donations are more and thedude needs some money they may as well mention this too. Or they can just say that they keep $Z amount for the costs of the following quarter etc etc

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[-] Kip@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago

Let the guy get some donations.

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[-] imperator@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

Awesome. Thank you for running this!

[-] daveuk@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

This sounds like exactly the sort of reason I came here, a laid back approach and a good community vibe...good work.

[-] brokenjumper@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

Definitely seems like an interesting way too take the instance, hope the funds donating can help support you and maybe a staff of people running the community if/when it gets big enough

[-] manifex@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

Thanks Dude. Merci Le Dude.

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this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023
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