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!world@lemmy.world mod enforces own opinion by modding opposing opinion as "misinformation" (lemmy.world)
submitted 5 days ago by hark@lemmy.world to c/yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
36 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Context: https://lemmy.world/comment/14613536 Screenshotted context just in case:

A user claims that the killing in Palestine stopped under Biden now. I point out that biden had full-throatedly supported the genocide for over a year. A mod deletes my post and says that biden didn't "state" (keyword here) full-throated support for genocide.

I counter by saying I consider sending billions in support of genocide counts as full-throated support for genocide. I also point out that I didn't say Biden stated his support for genocide and that he didn't need to outright state it because actions speak louder than words.

I receive a temp ban for that counter and the mod adds a response where they claim the weapons were "provided for defense from Iran, full stop." which sounds to me like actual misinformation because how the hell does bombing hospitals in Gaza defend Israel from Iran? I'm not bothered by their stupid opinion, but I am bothered that they are enforcing it through moderation.

I ran into a similar moderation problem on the Political Memes community also on .world, but I didn't bother making a post here for that because that's just a dumb meme community and I was better off just blocking it, but now this is concerning a world news community and it's awful to see something like this happening in a community that's supposed to keep people aware of the news.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong and it actually is misinformation to say it's full-throated support of genocide to send billions in weapons to a country using those weapons to commit genocide. Please let me know what you think!

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[-] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 days ago

PTB. Jordanlund is a Zionist, he and FlyingSquid have a long history of banning anyone who criticizes Israel. For those new here, he’s also very critical of BLM because they once “inconvenienced” him on the way to work by holding a protest.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

PTB especially considering jordanlund continued that thread to have the same argument with someone else with basically identical views as you. if it’s really misinformation all of that should be removed, but clearly it’s just satisfying to get a one up over one user.

i have said this before: !world@lemmy.world isn’t a news community; it’s a sandbox for that mod team to fuck around in.

[-] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

It would really be nice to see !world@quokk.au and !globalnews@lemmy.zip consolidate to offer an alternative, but the discussion never concluded: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/19642782

Ping @Deceptichum@quokk.au @PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat @BrikoX@lemmy.zip @xiao@sh.itjust.works @thelucky8@beehaw.org

[-] btaf45@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

how the hell does bombing hospitals in Gaza defend Israel

Thats not the purpose of the US sending aid to Israel. Can you prove the exact weapons used were provided by the US? Bombing hospitals does sound like something you should never do, but I think Israel would say certain ones were used as Hamas command centers.

I counter by saying I consider sending billions in support of genocide counts as full-throated support for genocide.

(1) War is not genocide. Genocide is genocide. Although It true that the Israeli PM seems to have dragged out the conflict way too long. Should have taken a few months tops to take over the entire region and establish safe zones.

(2) The US sending aid is not "full throated support for genocide". You can say that, but no normal person thinks that and most are silently rolling their eyes. Biden in fact did send at least one ultimatum to Israel threatening to cut off aid if they continued doing X.

But hey, maybe I’m wrong and it actually is misinformation to say it’s full-throated support of genocide to send billions in weapons to a country using those weapons to commit genocide. Please let me know what you think!

It's borderline. The exact point where hyperbole rises to the level of outright misinformation is a grey area. You don't know whether any specific weapons sent were used in the war at all, let alone used in any alleged intentional killings. And even isolated intentional killings would not be "genocide", they would be war crimes. Israel has a terrible PM right now but I don't think the Israeli leaders would be stupid enough to have some secret goal of exterminating all Gazans. Most US military aid is things like anti-missile defense.

[-] nomoyknsss@endlesstalk.org 4 points 2 days ago

Israel has a terrible PM right now but I don’t think the Israeli leaders would be stupid enough to have some secret goal of exterminating all Gazans.

It's not a secret, they are openly calling palestinians animals who should be eradicated.

[-] btaf45@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Who is? Do you have video of the Israeli PM saying that? Or are you talking about an angry family member of a Hamas kidnap victim? You are acting like this is all one sided and nobody else is to blame.

You know that Egypt could have allowed refuge camps to provide safe zones right but didn't do that right?

You know that Hamas could have ended it at any time by freeing the kidnap victims right? You know that they started the whole war right?

[-] nomoyknsss@endlesstalk.org 2 points 2 days ago

You can say that, but no normal person thinks that and most are silently rolling their eyes.

First of all please don't call me "abnormal".

Maybe the average american is so brainwashed he doesn't see the problem in arming a genocidal regime but it's an american problem. I assure you we rest of the world sees the issues.

Can you prove the exact weapons used were provided by the US?

Yes.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/usa-israel-has-used-us-made-arms-gaza-violation-international-law-new-report

[-] hark@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Israel would claim that hospitals were being used as Hamas command centers because that's the excuse they always use for their war crimes including the intentional killing of innocent people. The death toll in Gaza is about 50,000 and that's likely under-counting it. How many of those people do you think are combatants? If you want to be charitable, at best Israel are grossly negligent preventing civilian deaths, but the evidence shows they're intentionally targeting civilians and critical infrastructure that makes life possible in Gaza, hence the ruling by the ICC.

You call what the US sends to Israel "aid" and try to paint it as defensive, but there is nothing defensive about 2,000-pound bombs, especially when the targets are in such a densely-populated area like in Gaza. The goal to ethnically cleanse Gaza (and the rest of Palestine) is no secret. It's been the mission of Israel since their establishment and all you have to do is look at the map of Israel and Palestine to see one clearly eating up the other. Given the monstrous actions by Israel, it is an unconscionable act to provide support to such a regime. Supporting a regime carrying out genocide means support for genocide, especially when that support consists of such powerful weaponry with no defensive purpose.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 38 points 5 days ago

Seems aligned with the general tendency of LW mods to deny any implications of the USA as weapons providers for Israel

https://feddit.org/post/2791051?scrollToComments=true

No opinion on my side, I'm not American, but curious what others have to say.

[-] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 5 days ago

1000% and it got me banned from world

[-] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I'm shocked I'm not banned from .world for giving citations of the horrid actions of the people they idolize.

"Reality has a liberal bias" is a funny joke from Colbert, and when you give them reality and facts with places they themselves agree are "neutral, unbiased, reputable", suddenly they never liked them. Reality has a bias of "Maybe doing horrible things is bad no matter who does them."

They will change their tune when Trump does murder in Gaza. Suddenly they always supported Palestine, they always donated to the cause, never once did they ever defend Israel.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 5 points 4 days ago

BPR, in a sense.

Hear me out.

I don't think any particular viewpoint should ever be censored on Lemmy, except maybe in very rare exigent circumstances which this doesn't even remotely qualify as.

That said, there is a massive misinformation problem on Lemmy, amplifying the true fact that Biden supported Israel's genocide, and tying it randomly into totally different topics to the point that it distorts the real conversation and often crowds out genuine posters. That should be censored.

I don't think you can do it based on the viewpoint, but I absolutely get what Jordan's trying to do here. It's very difficult to tell if any particular person is doing misinformation, and if they're not, you can't censor their viewpoint, because that's messed up. But it's also hard to look at a whole comments section full of "GENOCIDE JOE he killed all those people I will never co-sign a genocide kamalcaust you need to call her kamalacaust blue MAGA" from people who are all incredibly obtuse and vocal in generally the same similar way when anyone talks to them about it, and not say that something should be done.

It's a hard problem. I have no idea if this particular poster is doing misinformation. If they aren't, then they should be allowed to say whatever. But removing misinformation, that's happening as an organized operation at scale, is absolutely a good thing. I wish mods did more of it, and I wish there was a better way to do it.

So: I actually do at this point have something pretty akin to "proof" that particular posters are doing misinformation on Lemmy in an organized fashion. If there are any admins that are interested to want to see it, message me privately and let's talk.

[-] hark@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

That's perhaps understandable if it was an isolated comment, but my first comment was in direct response to someone else who said, which I quoted, "we were told it would stop [if] Harris lost!" to which I responded by asking who was saying that because I can't imagine anyone serious saying that. In fact, that user's claim could be considered misinformation because it was completely misrepresenting the protest against genocide (but their post remains unmodded because I guess the mod agrees with them). I then went on to point out that the genocide had been going on for over a year by that point and I used "full-throatedly" because although the biden administration were pretending to hold back israel with like one shipment of weapons paused, they were providing israel with everything they needed to completely destroy Gaza.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 7 points 4 days ago

“we were told it would stop [if] Harris lost!” to which I responded by asking who was saying that because I can’t imagine anyone serious saying that.

There are people, this week, saying that Trump was able to end the war, because unlike Biden, he's not afraid to get tough with the Israelis. I agree with you that isn't a serious thing for them to say, but they are certainly saying it.

Here are some:

https://ponder.cat/post/1381069/1571676

So so far Trump did much more for Palestinian lifes than Biden. That is not a big achievement of Trump. It just shows that Biden indeed is genocide Joe, who chose every day to continue this, despite all it taking to end it being a phone call.

Emphasis is mine.

Another:

https://ponder.cat/post/1323549/1513345

Are you saying Biden wanted to end the war, but couldn’t?

Several different people have been talking about how it's going to stop, now, because Harris lost and it's Trump. I agree. That's absurd.

I'm not trying to have an extensive debate about the original topic here. I actually agree with you that Jordan removing your point of view, because in his opinion it's provably wrong, is totally PTB. I read back on the context and you 100% have a point. It bugged me. The mods can't go around deciding who's right and wrong and removing the wrong comments. I'm just saying that there is a tide of misinformation on this exact topic, with some of it conforming to the parameters you say would be an insane thing for someone to say. Which I agree with. Which is why several different people all saying it, apparently not wanting to engage with any reasonable dialogue about it, and shifting their positions, and making outlandish strawmans about the other side, et cetera, is a problem.

[-] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 4 days ago

So: I actually do at this point have something pretty akin to “proof” that particular posters are doing misinformation on Lemmy in an organized fashion. If there are any admins that are interested to want to see it, message me privately and let’s talk.

You should probably message those people's admins.

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 5 days ago

PTB

[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

While I generally do like your politics, and do also agree, I think it ill behoves you to not leave an explanation.

It's not your responsibility to weigh in on everything that comes through this community, even though most of us do appreciate it.

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Behooves? You mean it benefits me, or did you mean to use a negative? Otherwise that "While" makes no sense.

[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Ahh, sorry, that was rather archaic speech. I'm just saying it seems to me to be bad praxis to leave only a verdict without an explanation.

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I don't agree. As far as I'm concerned, the explanation is the OP itself. I also don't always have the time or inclination to write more than a judgement. Note however that my vote is not "The Final Say" or anything. I'm just writing as equal to one of y'all.

[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 days ago

I understand.

[-] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago

If you want an explanation, allow me. Jordanlund is a renowned Zionist who, along with FlyingSquid, has a long history in this community for banning people who criticize Israel. He usually shows up here at least once a week for something shitty he’s done.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 9 points 5 days ago

!world@quokk.au

[-] Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 9 points 5 days ago

Don't worry about a ban from World News

Theres plenty of other world news communities to go to on other servers, if a servers moderation is poor vote with your feet, comments, and posts.

Like, my opinion, man...

Its probably too far to say "full throated support for genocide", that administration made it very clear they didn't like what Israel has done to Palestinians. Buut, its also hard to argue that administration didn't passively support genocide or genocidal behaviour.

Its clearly true to say they supported the collective punishment of a whole people. Thats unambiguous, that administration put the US on the wrong side of history, and international law, something the US was instrumental in supporting, if never adopting.

Friends tell friends when they're in the wrong, Israel doesn't have a friend in the US, they're the US' unsinkable aircraft carrier.

[-] redrumBot@lemmy.ml 17 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

PTB.

Its probably too far to say "full throated support for genocide",

The USA is not only supporting the genocide with money and arms; they (and the UK) have also been bombing the only state (Yemen) that has tried to fulfill the international principle of Responsabilty to Protect (R2P) and has deployed their naval army to prevent others states to do it and/or to help with the genocide.

For me, that's enough to speak of an Israel-USA-UK genocide.

And sorry to go off-topic. 🤷🏽

Edit: added wiki link snd typos

[-] bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The Houthis in Yemen, not Yemen proper, you mean. How does their piracy and kidnapping of ships and their crews do anything to protect Palestinians? It’s blatant disregard for international law.

Look up the awful crimes of the Houthis against Yemenis before you hail them as your humanitarian heroes.

[-] redrumBot@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 days ago

No, I mean Yemen. Ansar Al·lah is the Yemeni party that is in position to dictate their actions during the civil war that has been paused as a reaction of the Israel attack to the Gazan territory (i.e.: the escalation of the Israel genocide)

How does their piracy and kidnapping of ships and their crews do anything to protect Palestinians?

What you call piracy and kidnapping, others can call it blockade of Israel and detention of the ships in violation of that blockage.

[-] bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 days ago

blockade of Israel

The ships kidnapped were not going to Israel.

It’s not a naval blockade at all. Read up how these work in international law.

[-] redrumBot@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 days ago

Of course, that is not a naval blockage at all.

Just after they announced it, the USA (or Genocide Joe/USA Democratic Party, what do you like more) announced an 'international' military intervention to stop them. Some usual USA bootlickers withdrew from that army (I remember that Spain was one of them, but there were more). Later, I have only read references to the USA and the UK.

At least, I think that we can agree that Yemen (or Houthis/Ansar All·lah, what do you like more) can not sustain a blockade with the active opposition of the USA.

[-] bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago

There wasn’t even an attempt at a naval blockade of Israel. They attacked and hijacked ships, that didn’t even go to Israel.

[-] Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 7 points 5 days ago

We disagree on the finer points, but i'm not gona argue these points.

Fact is if these administrations don't wish to be accused of war crimes, crimes against humanity, or contraventions of UN Charters then there are other paths throughout this period they could have chosen.

[-] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 5 days ago

that administration made it very clear they didn't like what Israel has done to Palestinians.

Which is why despite saying one thing they did the opposite and continued to send blank checks. Actions speak louder than words. Full throated indeed.

[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Everybody's been brainwashed by zionism their whole lives, especially genocide joe.

[-] EABOD25@lemm.ee 6 points 5 days ago

Do you just like using "full-throated"? Lol. That has a completely different meaning for me

[-] hark@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

I like using the word in this case because it accurately describes the level of support biden has for israel. Coincidentally, he tops the list of recipients of donations from aipac: https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S

this post was submitted on 22 Jan 2025
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