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Can one still claim that the USA is a liberal democracy? Where do you draw the line?

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[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 3 months ago

The people saying "always has been" have really short memories or've forgotten about the Roosevelt administrations.

There is a decent argument to be made that the USA is a de-facto oligarchy. However, it's a de-jure liberal democracy and Constitutional Republic for the time being.

[-] exploitedamerican@lemm.ee 7 points 3 months ago

Fdr was the exception to the rule. He pushed against the fascist oligarchs to prevent violent uprising of the proletariat.

[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 months ago

"To prevent violent uprising of the proletariat" are you actively trying to phrase it to make it sound like even when someone does something good it was actually bad?

[-] exploitedamerican@lemm.ee 7 points 3 months ago

Not at all, i just think FDR was more complex than people make him out to be. He wasn't so much the savior of working class people as he was someone who placated both sides to achieve the best possible outcome. But given the vitriol he inspired from the wealthy its easy to see why he is still so revered by the struggling masses to this day.

[-] FundMECFSResearch 8 points 3 months ago

if money = power then liberal (democracy) = oligarchy

[-] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 months ago

it's very close to turning into one.

It's not quite there, but trump is definitely not one to shy away from it, so it mostly depends on who he appoints and interacts with. And how corrupt he will be.

[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 4 points 3 months ago

Feel free to crosspost to !AskUSA@discuss.online

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

It's at least a Soft Oligarchy yes. There's no legally or extra legally enforced class system. If you can make it into the upper classes, by guile, luck, or sheer bastardry they'll accept you and let you run some things, maybe even political offices. See J.D. Vance, a millennial from Appalachia who has risen to the Vice Presidency via guile and sheer bastardry.

But it's a Soft Oligarchy because opportunities are far from equal. Before anyone starts screeching, equality of outcome isn't an expectation here, merely equality of opportunity. In the large majority of cases your zip code can predict your future socioeconomic level. And not because rural areas are cheaper, that just means middle and upper class start at lower numbers there. Those classes are still not being obtained. Along with this are several studies over the last couple decades telling us that socioeconomic mobility is all but dead, both individually, and more recently, intergenerational mobility.

So while you aren't going to be killed or imprisoned for earning too much or asking for stuff above your station, it is very rare to access those levels without being born to them. Thus the "soft" in Soft Oligarchy.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 3 points 3 months ago

Sure you can. Until January 6th.

[-] tht@social.pwned.page 3 points 3 months ago

Yes, it has

[-] dullbananas@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 months ago

The closest thing we have to democracy is our ability to begin democracy by fighting against first-past-the-post voting systems

[-] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago

The government controls all media. If they do not control one and it get big, it gets 'regulated' like TikTok or even banned. The general public will vote for the oligarchy as instructed.

[-] 7fb2adfb45bafcc01c80@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

No, we will never be an oligarchy. A plutocracy, yes, but I think money is the deciding factor here.

[-] Furbag@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

A Plutocracy is merely an Oligarchy by virtue of wealth. It's not as if you or I could ever earn enough money legitimately to move up to the ruling class. That makes it functionality indistinguishable from an Oligarchy that is hand picked by arbitrary factors.

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this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2025
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