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Rockstar Games' servers have been under heavy fire from massive DDoS attacks in recent days, causing widespread login and connectivity issues for players of GTA Online. These attacks come in the wake of Rockstar’s recent implementation of BattlEye, a new anti-cheat system designed to crack down on in-game cheating, sparking backlash from a segment of the player base. Protesters, unhappy with the new system, have resorted to using distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attacks to disrupt the servers, escalating tensions between the gaming giant and its community.

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[-] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 297 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

According to Mutahar:

  1. The Anti Cheat has already been bypassed by a free cheat menu on Windows.

  2. He's fairly sure he has figured out some kind of way to temporarily bypass (as in, it'll probably get caught in a few weeks) the linux block by some kind of custom virtualization method (requiring only one GPU) that he says he may explain in detail at some point.

In general, he's done with playing GTO.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eMSagozpKPs&pp=ygUSbXV0YWhhciBndGEgb25saW5l

But yeah, obligatory reminder for BattleEye and EasyAntiCheat games that refuse to allow linux play:

All these game devs have to do is flip a switch, click a few options in their developer portals, to allow BattleEye or EAC to work on linux, through Proton.

And its been that way for 3 years, since 2021.

There is literally no reason for games that use these services to not work on linux, the devs just don't fucking care.

[-] AsudoxDev@programming.dev 142 points 3 months ago

Some devs sure do fear linux users.

[-] doctortran@lemm.ee 73 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It feels like it's part and parcel with an overall, growing trend in software to be openly hostile to any system wherein the user has proper admin rights.

Because the potential for someone to use those rights to fuck with the software merits refusing to support systems where they can.

Further entrenching the notion that, to participate in a "modern" consumer software environment, the user must agree to be handcuffed on their own hardware.

[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago

The potential?

People are hacking the shit out of any online game without proper anticheats

[-] knightly@pawb.social 29 points 3 months ago

*with or without

FTFY

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[-] echodot@feddit.uk 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I've heard devs say that Linux users come up with something like 90% of the bug reports. They're often bugs that only affect Linux,so you've got, say 10% to the player base reporting 90% of the issues, and about 85% of those issues only affect the 10% of the player base.

Simply from an economics standpoint it doesn't make sense to spend that much resources on such a small percentage of the player population. Additionally about half of those Linux users do have Windows computers, that they are prepared to buy your game on, if that's the only option. So again it makes no financial sense to actually support Linux.

As far as the studios see it they are taking a 5% cut in profits, in order to reduce workload by 85% - seems like a good deal.

I can't even really argue with that, because they make a good point. Indie devs have it even more difficult because they often have much smaller teams, and really can't handle the workloads that Linux users would give them.

[-] nous@programming.dev 123 points 3 months ago

The devs from ΔV: Rings of Saturn give a completely different story. Yeah, most bug reports come from Linux - but platform specific ones a vanishingly rare: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/qeqn3b/despite_having_just_58_sales_over_38_of_bug/

Do you know how many of these 400 bug reports were actually platform-specific? 3. Literally only 3 things were problems that came out just on Linux. The rest of them were affecting everyone - the thing is, the Linux community is exceptionally well trained in reporting bugs. That is just the open-source way. This 5.8% of players found 38% of all the bugs that affected everyone. Just like having your own 700-person strong QA team. That was not 38% extra work for me, that was just free QA!

Not to mention the quality of the reports from the Linux users was vastly more details and useful to them.

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[-] Womble@lemmy.world 84 points 3 months ago

Thats was a. From years before proton, b. from a dev renowned for being linux hostile, c. ignores the fact that linux users are far more likely to be technical and likely to submit a proper bug report rather than shrugging and moving on.

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[-] cmhe@lemmy.world 29 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Who was that developer? Where are those numbers from? Any sources?

I remember ~9 years ago the Blizzard CEO said this: "[...] I would assume most of those people also have access to a Windows or Mac device capable of playing Blizzard games." https://www.change.org/p/blizzard-entertainment-support-please-release-native-linux-clients/u/9982826

Which is pretty disrespectful, but just one part of these arguments.

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[-] Aeurek@lemm.ee 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Because Linux users file bug reports.

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[-] sp6@lemmy.world 154 points 3 months ago

If I played any Rockstar games, I'd be unhappy with their new anti-cheat too, since it needlessly blocks linux, but this isn't the way this should be protested. If anything, this probably validates their decision.

The way this should be protested is to just stop playing. Stop giving them money. Stop boosting their month active user numbers that they can flaunt to investors. Hit them financially, since it's the only hit they really care about. There's a sea of other high-quality games you can play instead.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 49 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Gamers and still buying the same old tired shit while bitching about it, name a more…

You’re absolutely right. The number of great games to play is absurd and the access to them has never been better but for some reason most people just play mediocre games that should have been put out to pasture years ago.

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[-] forgotaboutlaye@lemmy.world 31 points 3 months ago

I've read that Steam is accepting refunds for GTAV - I'd recommend anyone who bought it there refund it.

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[-] tabular@lemmy.world 23 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Have you tried not buying something in protest? If so have you noticed they keep selling it anyway and you have no alternative? Not giving them money isn't enough.

I'm not a fan of DoSA as it's rather strongarm but at least this actually sends a message to them AND other users.

I'm not interested in having to fight anti-features to play what I paid for, but at least circumventing it sends a message.

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[-] Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world 105 points 3 months ago

The fact that it’s a top 10 seller on steam deck for years and they just fucked over everyone on Linux, they deserve it. We all paid them and they completely screwed all of us. I feel so cheated. I only run Linux and I have a steam deck. I left a bad review on steam and I contacted their support from all my rockstar accounts, but it’s not enough. Battleye is compatible with Linux, they just had to send an email, but rockstar keeps lying that it’s not compatible.

[-] Vespair@lemm.ee 81 points 3 months ago

Don't buy games with invasive user-side anti-cheats that hamper performance, and demand refunds on any game that adds it after purchase.

I don't understand why this is so hard for people. If everyone gave a shit, we could end this. But instead, people would rather just complain while still forking over the money to these companies.

There are so many good indie games without this kind of bullshit. We have better choices.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 96 points 3 months ago

They implemented this 10 years after the game's release. It's harder to vote with your wallet at that point.

[-] Vespair@lemm.ee 39 points 3 months ago

and demand refunds on any game that adds it after purchase.

The way I see it, adding it, even this late, is changing the terms of the agreement and thus justification for a refund. Steam will often see it that way too if you word it as such. And if not, hell, you can still badger the publisher for a refund incessantly so at least it still costs them the equivalent in man hours even if you don't get the refund. The point is not to be passive, even if we don't get to win every single battle.

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[-] MehBlah@lemmy.world 79 points 3 months ago

Articles a joke since it doesn't mention that the people pissed off are the linux players. Not the cheaters but the linux users.

[-] fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago

That's why one never pisses off a Linux user.

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[-] SpicyLizards@reddthat.com 79 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Can't release a sequel or single player update in a decade - can impose cheat engines. Something about a surprised pikachu when they get flak

[-] Buttons@programming.dev 79 points 3 months ago

Couldn't we avoid all this by giving players the option to host and moderate their own servers?

[-] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 35 points 3 months ago

That would lose a ton of profits!

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[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 58 points 3 months ago

This is actually really effective as a form of protest. From a business perspective, Rockstar probably won't roll anticheat back, but future companies will assess it as part of the risk when looking to add AC

[-] indomara@lemmy.world 57 points 3 months ago

I bought Red Dead Redemption for myself and three friends, super excited about the game, the lore. I had never spent that much money on a game.

We all played through the single player tutorial, and finally into the open world. We meet up and begin exploring and trying to complete quests when suddenly one of us just ... drops dead.

Then another is hit by a meteor and caught on fire?

I am thrown up into the sky.

An alien ship?! Appears and messes with us for a while. I try begging in pub chat for the hacker to please leave us so we can play, which seems to goad them further. This continued for an hour.

A quick look around the internet told us that this was par for the course for RDR and GTA and Rockstar couldn't/wouldn't do anything about it.

We ended up refunding all the games through steam. Sad times.

[-] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 20 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Firstly, yeah... RDRO is utterly plauged with all sorts of cheaters using trainers and all kinds of cheats is full of crap, at least for PC.

The standard strategy you basically have to employ is that whenever you see something nonsense like that happen is you have to jump to another instance/lobby. Depending on your luck, you may have to do this every 15 to 60 minutes aaaand some cheats allow the cheater to follow you to your new lobby.

Secondly...

A few years back I was in RDRO and was attacked by a cheater.

I had a broke ass level 15ish character with the just a few of the least expensive guns.

They had infinite ammo. Teleport hopping. Spawned 10 additional NPCs versions of themselves, then of my character, then zombies, then legendary animals (basically fucking monsters).

All the while they're scrambling their name in the scoreboard every minute and create spoofs to make it harder to actually do a report or have the grievance system actually work correctly.

I killed them all. I died over and over again, but I kept killing them. Whittled down the fake names and spoofs and kept doing the grievance thing until it was actually landing on one consistent name.

Then the cheater began spawning gigantic props like boats attached to their character, which rotated and hit with physics force when they rotated, which they could shoot out of but I could not shoot into.

But uh, I managed to juke my way through cracks in the collision mesh, then shoot him.

He got tired of this at some point... and just turned himself invisible.

But, by this point I'd been killed enough times that I'd managed to get him showing up on my radar.

I'd by then long since run out of ammo... and began stalking him, via radar, with just a knife and lasso, sometimes the running tackle with the lasso that leads into a hogtie, other times actually managing to sneak up behind him, executing an invisible foe.

After an hour and a half of this, he started slipping up, and I could see him attempting to flee me, teleport half a klik away and just stand there for 30 seconds, then move a bit, then pause again, presumably fiddling around in his menus.

I killed him a few more times in this state, and he quit, he left.

... I would have just jumped to another instance if he had not killed my horse.

Do not fuck with a man's horse lol.

... anyway, yeah. hung up my hat after that. fucking nonsense.

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[-] PraiseTheSoup@lemm.ee 17 points 3 months ago

The most confusing part about this is that people are still playing GTA Online. Why...?

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[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago

Sounds like it's working

[-] art@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

I'm not going to condone this, but also.... haha.

[-] MoogleMaestro@lemmy.zip 13 points 3 months ago

I really hope they don't find a way to blame the linux community for this. Even if we hate kernel level anti cheat, I think most of us were happy with the refund from Valve lol

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

Unpopular opinion...

Man, I wrote a whole WoT about this. Deleted it. Fuck the cheaters. I don't know why it's so hard to stop them. The kind of people that will DDoS a company for blocking them are the same ones that will cheat. No gold star for any honest players that DDoS, either. If there's a server problem or a bad patch that prevents me from playing my first thought isn't to DDoS the company and fuck up everyone else's game in a fit of petty revenge too. That said, it's sad that honest players are the only ones harmed after the cheat coders found their workaround so quickly.

[-] Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

As someone who is pretty old and is a crap gamer - well firstly I only play single player so I guess it wouldn't effect me. But what's the problem with anti cheat? Aside from it being code you don't want on your machine. I dunno, I don't get why people cheat. Isn't it a better feeling when you just play and get good?

Edit - I'm not defending rockstar btw. Don't know the politics here. In fact last game I enjoyed was vice city on the PS2. I'm trying to hey caught up on everything I missed. But yeah, what's the problem with anti cheat?

[-] Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world 48 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Aside from it being code you don’t want on your machine. I dunno, I don’t get why people cheat. Isn’t it a better feeling when you just play and get good?

I've done some cheating on GTAO, so I can speak to this a bit.

For me, the next biggest reason after the one you listed is that their game is grindy as fuck. I want to be able to play with the cool vehicles and toys in the game, but they're locked behind hours and hours of grinding, even just for a single item. I understand some people like that, but it's not for me. But it's also not just grinding that's the problem. Their loading screens in the game are frequent, slow (1-5 minute of loading each), and are filled with shitty crews that make it impossible to do the missions.

So back when I used to play I had a script that would just give me shit loads of money. I could buy what I wanted, have fun, and move on. Games are for fun, not for feeling like they're a second job.

What's worse, is that Rockstar intentionally makes it grindy so you're motivated to steal your mom's credit cards and use real world money to buy fake world money that lasts you about 20 minutes. It's very scummy behavior, and cheating is a way to get around that.

The script kiddies that just like to fuck with other people are a whole other can of worms. Those people can get bent.

[-] rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world 25 points 3 months ago

I wasn't expecting the perspective of an online game cheater on this to be so interesting, but that was really very interesting. Thanks for sharing it.

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[-] squidspinachfootball@lemm.ee 14 points 3 months ago

Ethical cheating? Nice. I can get behind that.

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[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago

Aside from it being code you don’t want on your machine

Code you don't want on your machine, that have sometimes more permissions than you yourself have on your own files, is completely opaque, and have the legitimacy to keep constant outgoing network data that you can't audit.

Yes, aside for that, no reason at all. No problem with a huge risk on your privacy for moderate results that don't particularly benefit you in the long run.

(and all that is assuming that they're not nefarious to begin with, which is almost impossible to prove)

[-] wabafee@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

If you play in Linux assuming this game even runs on Linux. Good chance they will ban you from running this game on that OS. They could allow it but most companies see Linux as a minority and will mostly willing to take the hit of blanket banning the whole OS. I guess Steamdecks would be out of question now. Another is security risk this kind of anti cheat tend to be invasive they have access to your kernel, the part of the OS that has access to everything on your system. If that thing is compromised good chance you'll be affected also if you have that in your system. Think of something like crowdstrike issue.

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this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2024
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