3534
Lemmy World outages (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by lwadmin@lemmy.world to c/lemmyworld@lemmy.world

Hello there!

It has been a while since our last update, but it's about time to address the elephant in the room: downtimes. Lemmy.World has been having multiple downtimes a day for quite a while now. And we want to take the time to address some of the concerns and misconceptions that have been spread in chatrooms, memes and various comments in Lemmy communities.

So let's go over some of these misconceptions together.

"Lemmy.World is too big and that is bad for the fediverse".

While one thing is true, we are the biggest Lemmy instance, we are far from the biggest in the Fediverse. If you want actual numbers you can have a look here: https://fedidb.org/network

The entire Lemmy fediverse is still in its infancy and even though we don't like to compare ourselves to Reddit it gives you something comparable. The entire amount of Lemmy users on all instances combined is currently 444,876 which is still nothing compared to a medium sized subreddit. There are some points that can be made that it is better to spread the load of users and communities across other instances, but let us make it clear that this is not a technical problem.

And even in a decentralised system, there will always be bigger and smaller blocks within; such would be the nature of any platform looking to be shaped by its members. 

"Lemmy.World should close down registrations"

Lemmy.World is being linked in a number of Reddit subreddits and in Lemmy apps. Imagine if new users land here and they have no way to sign up. We have to assume that most new users have no information on how the Fediverse works and making them read a full page of what's what would scare a lot of those people off. They probably wouldn't even take the time to read why registrations would be closed, move on and not join the Fediverse at all. What we want to do, however, is inform the users before they sign up, without closing registrations. The option is already built into Lemmy but only available on Lemmy.ml - so a ticket was created with the development team to make these available to other instance Admins. Here is the post on Lemmy Github.

Which brings us to the third point:

"Lemmy.World can not handle the load, that's why the server is down all the time"

This is simply not true. There are no financial issues to upgrade the hardware, should that be required; but that is not the solution to this problem.

The problem is that for a couple of hours every day we are under a DDOS attack. It's a never-ending game of whack-a-mole where we close one attack vector and they'll start using another one. Without going too much into detail and expose too much, there are some very 'expensive' sql queries in Lemmy - actions or features that take up seconds instead of milliseconds to execute. And by by executing them by the thousand a minute you can overload the database server.

So who is attacking us? One thing that is clear is that those responsible of these attacks know the ins and outs of Lemmy. They know which database requests are the most taxing and they are always quick to find another as soon as we close one off. That's one of the only things we know for sure about our attackers. Being the biggest instance and having defederated with a couple of instances has made us a target.  

"Why do they need another sysop who works for free"

Everyone involved with LW works as a volunteer. The money that is donated goes to operational costs only - so hardware and infrastructure. And while we understand that working as a volunteer is not for everyone, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. As a volunteer you decide how much of your free time you are willing to spend on this project, a service that is also being provided for free.

We will leave this thread pinned locally for a while and we will try to reply to genuine questions or concerns as soon as we can.

(page 3) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] root@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago

Thank you guys for the write up and for helping to keep things running.

[-] Valdair@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

The downtime is causing an issue with posting content from other instances - I've seen this a handful of times from kbin. I post something to a lemmy.world community, and kbin thinks it's there, but lemmy.world doesn't see it. But, the delete request seems to need to go through lemmy.world, which doesn't agree that the content exists. So my profile is filled with posts people on kbin can see, but no one else can, and I can't delete them. Is there any kind of catch-up mechanic for instances to try to agree on what content should be present if content was altered during downtime? I can see this becoming a lot more confusing as people look at a community from multiple different instances and see different content, not realizing this is unintended behavior.

The biggest misconception I've seen on Reddit and elsewhere is that you need an account on every single instance if you want to interact with content on that instance, and it's not supposed to be true but while this bug continues, it kind of is true.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] cpo@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

Well thanks for the update and your hard work. I am currently using lemm.ee as a backup account so that I can at least have my fix.

Hope the bastard(s) who are ddossing the server get some nice tropical diseases.

Lemmy.world also was my first step into the fediverse.

[-] Rottcodd@kbin.social 20 points 2 years ago

Ironic that they're effectively proving that you were right to not trust them...

[-] AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago

People should stick with the instance otherwise you're just encouraging those tankies and nazis to use DDOS attacks again to bring down instances that defederate with them, don't let them know that they're successful. This opportunistic concern trolling around lemmy.world's downtime needs to stop. As the admins said, sooner or later "small" instances would have 100k users and would start having these issues all at once if it weren't for lemmy.world experiencing them first hand. Some DB optimizations were pushed to Lemmy thanks to lemmy.world.

load more comments (8 replies)
[-] desmosthenes@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago

keep up the good work team; you're the linchpin to this renaissance

[-] GnothiSeauton@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago

Would it be possible to have the error page when you are being attacked/there is an outage point to some other lemmy instances to go to?

I think that could be a big help if there is an issue when a new user tries to check out .world for the first time. They will at least have a link to click on to check out what lemmy is like on another instance and maybe sign up there too.

[-] joklhops@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago

keep fighting the good fight <3

[-] Demigodrick@lemmy.zip 18 points 2 years ago

Ah no, sorry, while I sympathise with your technical issues, the rest of your post is disingenuous at best.

Lemmy.world being too big is bad for Lemmy as a product/software/"brand" etc - your downtime, being the instance most people link to, is a LOT of people's first impression and when it spends time being down, people associate THAT downtime with Lemmy, and not the hundreds of other instances that don't have downtime.

The issue isn't even about you being the biggest instance, its the absolute imbalance in both users and communities on one instance and you willingly allowing it continue. If you genuinely cared about Lemmy, you would close registrations now.

You have enough "technical" people to build your own instance from the source code with that change for the banner built in (and you could go ahead and submit the PR/Issue anyway), but you haven't - instead placing the blame on the developers. Hell, you only made the PR 5 hours ago after weeks of other admins asking you to close the instance.

You could even make the simple change to the sign up link instead lead to join-lemmy, but for whatever reason you want to continue to be the biggest instance and don't care about the wider lemmy ecosystem and the effect that it has.

load more comments (12 replies)
[-] comcreator@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

To my understanding Datadog is not FOSS. Would you guys consider using a FOSS alternative for motoring the status of lemmy.world such as Uptime Kuma? That way your who stack is closer to being FOSS.

https://uptime.kuma.pet/

[-] ramble81@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

The ship of "Lemmy must be entirely FOSS" has sailed. You can either invest time or money and even then there are some tradeoffs of things that can't be swapped out. Datadog and Cloudflare are two of those such things.

Lemmy (including lemmy.world) are at a critical junction to continue to grow or lose momentum. These DDOSs are one such thing that caused it and everyone going "FOSS, FOSS, FOSS!" are another. If they have time in the future there may be a possibility, but when playing the growth game sometimes you have to go with the best tool available even if it doesn't meet your ideals.

Sync for Reddit is another such tool. I've seen so much hate for it because it's not pure FOSS, pay no mind to the sheer number of people that have downloaded it, are using it and have helped drive traffic to Lemmy and the Fediverse in general.

Nothing is stopping you from using a fully FOSS front end with your own server, that's the beauty of the Fediverse, you can choose what you want and still interact with others, but don't get on their case when they select something you don't like.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] ieightpi@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

Ive been waiting for this response from you guys. You have been a fantastic admin team so far. I still don't agree with some of the de-federating, but overall you guys truly show you care about this instance and the lemmy fediverse as a whole.

I know I wont be wavering because of butt hurt idiots in other instances. I will hold my ground and stick to Lemmy.World.

Keep it up and i hope that in due time, you guys can keep the DDOS attacks under control.

[-] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 years ago

There's nothing wrong with making an alt account for when .world is down. In fact, it's very much in the spirit of the fediverse to do so.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] quinten@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

Great explanation! And thanks for the many many hours you guys put in.

[-] AndreyAsimow@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

Great work guys! Keep going!

[-] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

Is Lemmy not throttling requests to APIs based on how computationally expensive they are? Or is it that many IP addresses are hitting those APIs and are within the throttling limits?

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] fkn@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

Question, can we configure the nginx to return cached responses for all non-logged in queries for predetermined periods of time? (1min for example?)

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] sverit@feddit.de 14 points 2 years ago

Are DDoS protection services like those from Akamai, Arbor Networks, Link22 etc an option? Those are tested as ok by the German Federal Office for Information Security.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] hamid@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

Sounds like you are the victims of a hackathon more so than a single person upset about drama. defcon is tomorrow, maybe some group/feds/soon-to-be-fed will have a demonstration and talks about ActivityPub

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›
this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
3534 points (100.0% liked)

Lemmy.World Announcements

30717 readers
1 users here now

This Community is intended for posts about the Lemmy.world server by the admins.

Follow us for server news 🐘

Outages 🔥

https://status.lemmy.world/

For support with issues at Lemmy.world, go to the Lemmy.world Support community.

Support e-mail

Any support requests are best sent to info@lemmy.world e-mail.

Report contact

Donations 💗

If you would like to make a donation to support the cost of running this platform, please do so at the following donation URLs.

If you can, please use / switch to Ko-Fi, it has the lowest fees for us

Ko-Fi (Donate)

Bunq (Donate)

Open Collective backers and sponsors

Patreon

Join the team

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS