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submitted 10 months ago by KaKi87@jlai.lu to c/linux@lemmy.ml

On Debian-based distros, when an app is available as a DEB or an AppImage (that doesn't self-update), but no APT repository, PPA or Flatpak, the only option is to manually download each update, and usually manually check even whether there are updates.

But, what if those would be upgraded at the same time as everything else using the tools you're familiar with ?

dynapt is a local web server that fetches those DEBs (and AppImages to be wrapped into DEBs) wherever those are, then serves these to APT like any package repository does.

I started building it a few months ago, and after using it to upgrade apps on my computers and servers for some time, I pre-released it for the first time last week.

The stable version will come with a CLI wizard to avoid this manual configuration.

Feedback is welcome :)

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[-] semperverus@lemmy.world 43 points 10 months ago

Obtainium but for Debian, nice

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 4 points 10 months ago
[-] bizdelnick@lemmy.ml 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

If I'd decide to implement something like this, I'd consider two options: local repo with file:// scheme or custom apt-transport. HTTP server is needless here. (But I'll never do this because I prefer to rebuild packages myself if there's no repo for my distro.)

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 9 points 10 months ago

local repo with file:// scheme

With that, I couldn't trigger a download when apt update is ran, I could only do a cron, i.e. a delay, that I do not want.

custom apt-transport

I thought about that, but found no documentation on how to do it. If you have any, I'm interested.

Even just finding documentation on how to generate DEBs and APT repository metadata files was very hard.

[-] bizdelnick@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago

It is documented in libapt-pkg-doc (/usr/share/doc/libapt-pkg-doc/method.html/index.html).

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 5 points 10 months ago

In an APT package OMG 😂

I found an online version though, which I would never have found through my search engine (and on a site that doesn't even support HTTPS) 😅

Looks like difficult reading too 😭

Thanks anyway.

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 4 points 10 months ago

Yeah, I don't have the skill for this. I'd be very happy if someone else would make this, but if not then I'm sticking to HTTP.

[-] keturn@sh.itjust.works 3 points 10 months ago

I went way down the rabbit hole on this one and ended up with a proof of concept that's probably close enough to be able to wire it up: https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/3745244

I guess it didn't end up too much code, but I'm not entirely sure it's worth it.

(it's after 3 AM? oh no what have I done)

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[-] Asetru@feddit.org 8 points 10 months ago

Sorry to be that guy, but this sounds like a cybersecurity nightmare. While everybody was busy to come up with schemes that make absolutely sure that only trusted sources can update a system to avoid having malicious players push their code to users, this one just takes any rando's pile of whatever and injects it straight into the system's core? Like, that doesn't sound like a good idea.

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 12 points 10 months ago

Well, I'm just automating what people currently have to do manually : visit GitHub and download DEB and install DEB.

If the automated process would be dangerous then the manual process also would be, and that would be on the maintainer for not providing an APT repository or a Flatpak, not on the user for just downloading from GitHub.

[-] ulkesh@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago

It’s a cool concept, but automation breeds laziness (by design, to an extent) and lazy end users tend to shoot themselves in the foot. So it isn’t great for security, but it also isn’t that much worse for security :)

Since some people with money tend to be litigious, and, of course, I am not a lawyer, I would advise a warning message (or part of the license if you don’t want to muck up your CLI), if you don’t have one, to force the user to accept and acknowledge that the software they are installing using this tool is not verified to be safe.

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 2 points 10 months ago

How is the manual step more secure though ?

What does the user do before downloading a DEB that makes that gap between manual and automated ?

I'd be willing to try and reproduce that, but I don't see anything.

[-] ulkesh@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago

I didn’t say it was more secure, I said it’s about the same.

The difference is a person being forced to go to a website to download software means more steps and more time to consider the safety of what they’re doing. It’s part psychological.

Not all such packages are retrieved from GitHub, I remember downloading numerous .deb files direct over the past 25 years (even as recent as downloading Discord manually some years back).

The main point I’m making is that you should legally protect yourself, it’s a low and reasonable effort.

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[-] lambda@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago

I see it more as a local repo. Like, setup the repo to do what you would have done manually so that you don't have to do it on multiple computers. I could be misunderstanding it though.

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 2 points 10 months ago

You understand perfectly.

[-] markstos@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

No matter where you install from, you have to trust the source. Indeed, you have to trust every step in the supply chain.

If you are getting your code straight from the author, you are eliminating an exploit that’s introduced by a compromised account of a packager.

Carry on.

[-] barkingspiders@infosec.pub 8 points 10 months ago
[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 7 points 10 months ago

Thank you for your appreciation !

[-] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Looks great, well done.

Personally, the deb-related annoyance that I have encountered most often in recent years is that there is an APT repo but I have to jump thru hoops to add it. An example is signal-desktop, where the handy one-click installation goes like this:

# 1. Install our official public software signing key:
wget -O- https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt/keys.asc | gpg --dearmor > signal-desktop-keyring.gpg
cat signal-desktop-keyring.gpg | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg > /dev/null

# 2. Add our repository to your list of repositories:
echo 'deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg] https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt xenial main' |\
  sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/signal-xenial.list

# 3. Update your package database and install Signal:
sudo apt update && sudo apt install signal-desktop

Why does Debian-Ubuntu not provide a simple command for this? Yes there is add-apt-repository but for some reason it doesn't deal with keys. I've had to deal with this PITA on multiple occasions, what's up with this?

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 2 points 10 months ago

Thanks, and agreed !

Fortunately, copy/pasting works and you only have to do it once.

[-] JustARegularNerd@aussie.zone 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

This might be for the better, but Discord was so infuriating about updates and forcing you to download them what felt like 50% of the time I opened it, I gave up and just use it in Ungoogled Chromium now. I'm pretty sure within a few months I ended up having 15+ debs of Discord in my Downloads folder.

For anyone else trying to use the native Discord app on Debian, I think they'll find this a major treat.

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 5 points 10 months ago

Discord not automating downloads of DEBs is one of the reasons motivating me to do this.

Personally I need the desktop client because I mod it with plugins that are so useful that I can't do without these anymore.

Alternatively, there are third-party repositories here and here.

There still is delay between Discord releases and repository updates so I still believe dynapt to be the better solution.

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[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 3 points 10 months ago

I like it. Wonder if this could be retooled to work on rpm-ostree systems, because any layered packages installed from RPM files have the same limitation of needing to be manually upgraded.

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 2 points 10 months ago

I don't know anything about RPMs, but if you or anyone is familiar with it then perhaps !

[-] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 3 points 10 months ago

Sorry to ask, but isn't this basically the same thing as apt-cacher-ng?

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 7 points 10 months ago

Sorry to ask

Don't be. I would love to know that an existing and more experienced program does what mine does.

I've been looking for it myself for a long time before deciding to build it.

isn’t this basically the same thing as apt-cacher-ng?

Here's what I'm reading :

Apt-Cache-ng is A caching proxy. Specialized for package files from Linux distributors, primarily for Debian (and Debian based) distributions but not limited to those.

A caching proxy have the following benefits:

  • Lower latency
  • Reduce WAN traffic
  • Higher speed for cached contents
+------------+         +------------+        +------------+
| Apt Client |  <------+ Apt Cache  | <------+ Apt Mirror |
+------------+         +------------+        +------------+

So, not the same thing.

It locally mirrors existing repositories containing existing packages, it doesn't locally create a new repository for new packages from standalone DEBs.

[-] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 3 points 10 months ago

OK yeah, I wasn't sure if it had a way to collect debs from other sources. I've been using it for years to locally cache the standard Debian repos so I don't need to re-download packages every time I update my various servers and VMs, but I haven't really tried using it for anything beyond that.

[-] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago
[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 2 points 10 months ago
[-] flashgnash@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

Is that autotiling on cinnamon? Didn't know it could do that

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 5 points 10 months ago

It doesn't, that's provided by Cortile.

[-] markstos@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

This is somewhat re-inventing some things Ansible can do, which is download and install software whether it has a formal or informal source.

Ansible is the automation I use to manage personal and professional servers.

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 3 points 10 months ago

Which isn't user-friendly.

[-] skimm@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 10 months ago

Neat project!

While this might not solve all of your use cases, did you consider a tool like mise?

Theres a number of other options out there such as asdf-vm and others who's names I can't recall. I recently moved from asdf to miss but its a great way to install things on different machines and track it with your dotfiles, or any other repo you want to use. Mise has tons of configuration options for allowing overrides and local machine specific versions.

It won't tie into apt for your upgrades but you could just alias your apt update to include && mise up.

[-] KaKi87@jlai.lu 1 points 10 months ago

My main use case is end user desktops.

[-] takingbacksunday@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

I would test this out on termux. It's annoying to have very limited supported programs.

[-] Daeraxa@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago

Willing to give this a go. My go-to for getting non-repo debs automatically has been deb-get which works well but seems susceptible to issues when changes in the software it lists causes it to break and whilst the fix itself is usually made pretty quickly, it seems to go long periods of time between PR merges and releases (which includes adding new software). If this is a viable replacement for it then i'd love to start using it.

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this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
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