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submitted 1 year ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

BMW tests next-gen LiDAR to beat Tesla to Level 3 self-driving cars::Tesla's autonomous vehicle tech has been perennially stuck at Level 2 self-driving, as BMW and other rivals try to leapfrog to Level 3.

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[-] tibi@lemmy.world 117 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Tesla's decision to only use cameras and no lidar will bite them in the ass.

[-] Viper_NZ@lemmy.nz 92 points 1 year ago
[-] riodoro1@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

This. That cocksucker has such ~a tiny dick~ fragile ego he makes huge decisions without any expertise simply because he says so. Thats how he built the whole “genius” thing around him. Reality of it is that he is an annoying dumbass who thinks he knows it all and anyone in the same room with more than one brain cell is immediately annoyed with him. But he has a lot of money so i guess LeTtEr X cOoL

[-] NielsBohron@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think you need to use two tildes on each side if you want it show up as a strike through ~~like this~~

 ~~like this~~
[-] riodoro1@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Really? On wefwef my comment shows up with a strikethrough

~test with one tilde~

~~test with two tildes~~

I’ll use two from now I guess.

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[-] MacAttak8@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Came here to say this. Couldn’t be more on point. Using both cameras and LiDAR in tandem will be necessary for true self driving vehicles.

[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

fortunately LIDAR unit costs are going down, so multiple units, fusing their data with regular camera arrays should resolve a very good view, and be good at error-correcting for each other's shortcomings.

[-] AttackBunny@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Already is.

Humans drive using “cameras” (eyes) and no LiDAR, that’s the assumption Tesla is making — that a supercomputer can drive 10x better than humans using the same type of sensor. Nobody really knows yet if that’s true but I get the logic.

LiDAR also is UV/visible spectrum and is blocked by dust/fog/snow/rain so it doesn’t help much in many driving situations..

[-] falkerie71@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago

You're making an argument against LiDAR with it using UV/visible spectrum, guess what uses visible spectrum to see stuff? Cameras. And they also have an unfortunate downside of not having good dynamic range, so in very bright/low light situations they probably don't work that well either. Teslas aren't even using infrared cameras to see in the dark to my knowledge.

[-] scarilog@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Unsure why you are downvoted, because that is sound logic. I recall hearing on a podcast of I think a former Tesla engineer that having too many sensors potentially makes things less effective since you have to deal with different types of input, and have to crunch more data, etc. etc. Efficient development also means knowing when to cull unnecessary time sinks.

I hate Elon as much as the next guy, but... Well, humans are obviously not perfect drivers, but Tesla clearly believes that in time, with cameras all around the car (already an improvement over human drivers), a good enough AI solution would be able to match or surpass humans.

[-] falkerie71@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

I still rather have good ol radar as a fallback if cameras and their AI model don't work for some reason. They are still work in progress, and rely on trained models to recognize objects, while if a radar sees something, it is because there is something actually there and not a guess. I don't buy the story that too much sensors is bad. Planes rely on multiple different sensors plus backups for redundancy to fly safely, self-driving cars with vastly superior tech should be able to do the same.

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Anything short of fiercely anti-Tesla gets immediately downvoted here. Just how it goes I guess. I’m not the biggest Tesla fan but hope they succeed on this front, we desperately need driving assistance technology to make the roads safer.

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[-] Thorny_Thicket@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Currently they seem to be leading the race though even though the competition is using radar and lidar

Edit: Am I wrong?

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If buy leading the race you mean the only company to have an actual product available for purchase then yeah.

But the reason they were able to get to market so quickly is because they don't actually have any concerns about it being functional or safe. That's a real boon to them because it helps them move quickly ahead of the competition that do care about those things.

Of course one good argue that an unsafe self-driving system is in fact not a self-driving system and therefore they are not the first to market.

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

The average consumer would define self driving as "if my car crashes, my car should be sued". Is that how it works with a tesla crash, who pays for that?

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[-] Shikadi@lemmy.sdf.org 78 points 1 year ago

I hate that the article opens with

Just a decade ago, the concept of self-driving cars might have seemed like something out of a science fiction movie

Ten years ago there was already a ton of competition in self driving car research. They were first legalized on the roads 10 years ago. Tesla autopilot (including it even though it was a scam) was sold 9 years ago. Google spun off its self driving car division as waymo in 2016.

This feels like one of those "bruh Zelda ocarina of time came out 29 years ago, we old" memes

[-] Hubi@feddit.de 15 points 1 year ago

Hell, Mercedes and Bosch were testing it all the way back in 1993:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTnBiTIvGqY

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[-] Jmr@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Old Mercedes was insane. They really were the best or nothing

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[-] ConditionOverload@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Bet even the self driving software of BMW won't use turn signals when they change lanes.

[-] masterairmagic@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago

It would be a bug if it did signal 🤣

[-] mr_MADAFAKA@lemmy.fmhy.net 49 points 1 year ago

This will probably be under monthly subscription

[-] RustyPenguin@sh.itjust.works 42 points 1 year ago

"The route you selected contains a highway. Please purchase the Highway Driving Pack in addition to your City Driving Pack to reach your destination"

[-] SkyeHarith@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Fekkin hell that sounds like a boring dystopia

[-] FireWire400@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Sounds like a pretty bad Black Mirror episode

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[-] notatoad@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Almost certainly.

But self-driving also depends on up-to-date mapping data and continually improved algorithms for the autonomous systems to work properly. An ongoing cost to the customer makes the most sense for a service that has operating costs to the service provider.

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[-] Llamajockey@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

I've always thought that the Tesla craze would fizzle as major car brands start investing in EVs and self driving tech. I'll take a Toyota, Volvo, Honda or BMW over a Tesla anytime.

[-] kupfakura@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

Sadly Toyota is struggling to make a decent EV years after leading in hybrids. BMW on the other hand has insane efficiency

[-] Friendliestfire@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Still bizarre to me that Toyota had such a lead with hybrids and then went in on hydrogen and missed the boat on evs

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[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

hopefully this will change soon, there's some nifty shit on the horizon from Toyota, hope they meet expectations. https://www.inverse.com/tech/toyota-electric-car-600-mile-range-ev

[-] nathanjaker@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 year ago

My understanding was that the challenge in making the next leap in self driving was not based in hardware (detecting objects with cameras vs LiDAR), but in software. As in, it isn't as difficult to detect the presence of objects as it is to make consistent and safe decisions based on that information.

[-] RealJoL@feddit.de 20 points 1 year ago

But using LIDAR, you increase your data's accuracy and dimensionality, giving you more options to play with. It probably won't be a game changer, but it may be better than a camera only system.

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[-] Ejh3k@midwest.social 4 points 1 year ago

Self driving cars are great and all, but can we get someone seriously working on alternative fuels? EV is really pretty unsustainable. All the resources going to build batteries that are unrecycleable is a massive waste in my opinion. And the unless something drastic changes, the ranges that are needed for logistics and America aren't going to ultimately fix anything.

If they can create an alternative fuel that is significantly less polluting, or figure out how to make hydrogen less explody, the existing infrastructure worldwide of gas stations can still be efficiently used. And hopefully there will be a to retrofit existing vehicles to use this alternatives.

[-] dsmk@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 year ago

batteries that are unrecycleable

Is this actually the case?

[-] Pasketti@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago

My understanding is that EV batteries are actually very recyclable, up to 90%. I imagine it's more labor intensive than your conventional lead-acid batteries though.

[-] Fract@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I mean, shouldn't we be working on both? Just because they're working on one, that doesn't necessarily mean they're not working on the other.

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[-] Chickenstalker@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I think we should NOT allow self driving cars.

> but but muh autopilot in planes

No! Planes are inherently safer to fly than it is to drive cars. Planes have much more room and degree of freedom to maneuver. They are also monitored by air traffic control and the pilots are supposed to be highly trained and fit. Cars are restricted to one plane (heh) and any two bit yokel with stroke-diabeetus-fetal alcohol syndrome from Bumfuck Florida can get a license to drive a car. You can't pull up or dive in a car more than once.

> buh buh buh make every car automated

You just reinvented the train.

[-] kmkz_ninja@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

My favorite part of a train is the part where it drops you off right at your door.

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this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
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