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submitted 1 year ago by Haven5341@feddit.de to c/europe@feddit.de

What a difference a few months can make.

Ahead of Italy’s election last fall, Giorgia Meloni was widely depicted as a menace. By this summer, everything — her youthful admiration for Benito Mussolini, her party’s links to neofascists, her often extreme rhetoric — had been forgiven. Praised for her practicality and support for Ukraine, Ms. Meloni has established herself as a reliable Western partner, central to Group of 7 meetings and NATO summits alike. A visit to Washington, which takes place on Thursday, seals her status as a valued member of the international community.

But the comforting tale of a populist firebrand turned pragmatist overlooks something important: what’s been happening in Italy. Ms. Meloni’s administration has spent its first months accusing minorities of undermining the triad of God, nation and family, with dire practical consequences for migrants, nongovernmental organizations and same-sex parents. Efforts to weaken anti-torture legislation, stack the public broadcaster with loyalists and rewrite Italy’s postwar constitution to increase executive power are similarly troubling. Ms. Meloni’s government isn’t just nativist but has a harsh authoritarian streak, too.

For Italy, this is bad enough. But much of its significance lies beyond its borders, showing how the far right can break down historic barriers with the center right. Allies of Ms. Meloni are already in power in Poland, also newly legitimized by their support for Ukraine. In Sweden, a center-right coalition relies on the nativist Sweden Democrats’ support to govern. In Finland, the anti-immigrant Finns Party went one better and joined the government. Though these parties, like many of their European counterparts, once rejected membership in NATO and the European Union, today they seek a place in the main Euro-Atlantic institutions, transforming them from within. In this project, Ms. Meloni is leading the way.

Since becoming prime minister, Ms. Meloni has certainly moderated her language. In official settings, she’s at pains to appear considered and cautious — an act aided by her preference for televised addresses rather than questioning by journalists. Yet she can also rely on colleagues in her Brothers of Italy party to be less restrained. Taking aim at one of the government’s main targets, L.G.B.T.Q. parents, party leaders have called surrogate parenting a “crime worse than pedophilia,” claiming that gay people are “passing off” foreign kids as their own. Ms. Meloni can appear aloof from such rhetoric, even suggesting unhappiness with its extremism. But her decisions in office reflect zealotry, not caution. The government extended a ban on surrogacy to criminalize adoptions in other countries and ordered municipalities to stop registering same-sex parents, leaving children in legal limbo.

[...]

Journalists, too, are under pressure. Sitting ministers have threatened — and in some cases pursued — a raft of libel suits against the Italian press in an apparent bid to intimidate critics. The public broadcaster RAI is also under threat, and not just because its mission for the next five years includes “promoting birthrates.” After its chief executive and leading presenters resigned, citing political pressure from the new government, it now resembles tele-Meloni, with rampant handpicking of personnel. The new director general, Giampaolo Rossi, is a pro-Meloni hard-liner who previously distinguished himself as an organizer of an annual Brothers of Italy festival. In the aftermath of his appointment, news outlets published scores of his anti-immigration social media posts and an interview with a neofascist journal in which he condemned the antifascist “caricature” hanging over public life

This is not his concern alone. Burying the antifascist legacy of the wartime Resistance matters deeply to the Brothers of Italy, a party rooted in its fascist forefathers’ great defeat in 1945. As prime minister, Ms. Meloni has referred to Italy’s postwar antifascist culture as a repressive ideology, responsible even for the murder of right-wing militants in the political violence of the 1970s. It’s not just history to be rewritten. The postwar Constitution, drawn up by the Resistance-era parties, is also ripe for revision: The Brothers of Italy aims to create a directly elected head of government and a strong executive freer of constraint. No matter its novelty, Ms. Meloni’s administration has every chance of imposing enduring changes in the political order.

[...]

Success is hardly inevitable. Ahead of last week’s election in Spain, Ms. Meloni addressed her nationalist ally Vox, declaring that the “patriots’ time has come”; in fact, its vote share fell and right-wing parties failed to secure a majority. Even so, Vox has become an enduring part of the electoral arena and a regular ally for conservatives. Despite their growing success, such forces have for years been painted as insurgent outsiders representing long-ignored voters. The more disturbing truth is that they are no longer parties of protest, but increasingly welcome in the mainstream. For proof, just look to Washington on Thursday.

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[-] Screwthehole@lemmy.world 252 points 1 year ago

Ahhh fascism. Is this 1923 or 2023? Fucking people

[-] xuxebiko@kbin.social 153 points 1 year ago

People freely choose to vote fascists to power, and then wonder why their country has turned into hell.

:(

[-] starlinguk@kbin.social 98 points 1 year ago

They don't wonder, they blame immigrants. See Brexit.

[-] xuxebiko@kbin.social 42 points 1 year ago

In India, they blame religious minorities (Muslims & Christians) and the oppressed castes (Dalits, Adivasis (Adi = first, vasi = resident, Adivasis are India's indigenous tribals), & Bahujan)

The educated middle-class & upper-middle class who are mostly upper-caste take the lead in this villification.

:(

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

"So are you vegetarian by birth or by choice?"

Is a question I've heard that Indian engineers hear a lot in big US tech companies that hire a lot of H1B engineers. I'm not from India myself, but even I can see where that's going.

[-] xuxebiko@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's such a "What caste are you?" sneak question. Usually they are more direct and ask "So, what's your full name" and persist in trying to know the newcomer's lastname/ surname. Because the surname/ lastname is a caste marker.

Another trick men from the upper/ oppressor caste do is to casually & in a friendly manner put their arm across the new colleague's/ classmate's shoulders to sneakily check whether they're wearing the Brahmin-caste thread. Or they invite the new guy over for a swim, to visually confirm presence of the Brahmin caste marker.

Babasaheb Ambedkar (Dr. Bhimrao Ambedkar who is called Babasaheb with love & respect) had visualized this situation. He had written that if Brahmanism (Hinduism) goes abroad, casteism would become global problem.

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[-] federalreverse@feddit.de 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Why would US companies care about caste? Or does that question only come up because of Indian hiring managers/HR people?

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

It's other Indians at work deciding if you should be kept or stabbed in the back.

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[-] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 50 points 1 year ago

If fascist are put into power trough Democratic means then the people get the fascist government they deserve. Turkey had to chance to get rid of Erdog yet they overwhelmingly re-elected him.

[-] RossoErcole@kbin.social 49 points 1 year ago

But when voting happens in a society that is misinformed, usually maliciously so, like in Turkey, it is not democratic, democracy works and is true to itself only when a vote is informed.

[-] iByteABit@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago

Turkey is a big examples of that, but this extends to many countries as well, it's usually the uneducated and historically illiterate that fall for fascism

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[-] nieceandtows@programming.dev 26 points 1 year ago

History repeats itself… in 100 year cycles apparently.

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[-] HaiZhung@feddit.de 90 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What’s missing is what a huge difference the media makes. Once you control the media, you basically control the country, as can be seen in Hungary, Poland and Russia. All of these states have put in massive efforts to install their own cronies as media leadership, and you can see this happening in other countries too. Now it’s Italy.

Then on the other hand, you have billionaires that flood the people with cheap tabloid bullshit, of course to paralyze honest debates around things that actually matter (climate change, wealth inequality, etc) and instead refocus the populace on scape goats (LGBTQ rights, abortion, etc).

Far too often, „serious“ media fails to defend against the bullshit, and at some point will also report on these „issues“ as „this is what the country is talking about“. What they are ignoring is that this conversation is deliberately led by bad actors, and by picking it up they are legitimizing their positions.

Then they invite complete lunatics to discussion to provide a „balanced viewpoint“, when there is no balanced viewpoint to be had for certain issues: the earth is round, climate change is happening, and it is our fault. Period. There can be no further discussions on the facts.

The misinformation campaigns are massive, the astroturfing is massive, and is probably happening even here. It is too cheap and works too well to not do it.

[-] farsinuce@feddit.dk 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The misinformation campaigns are massive, the astroturfing is massive, and is probably happening even here. It is too cheap and works too well to not do it.

Yes, the power of stories is incredible - and human's likeliness to believe stories over facts, setting aside critical thinking over immediate feelings. Ref. Yuval Noah Harari.

Also:

"the earth is not round"

Flat. The earth is not flat.

[-] HaiZhung@feddit.de 19 points 1 year ago

I can’t believe I mistyped that 🤦🏻‍♀️ you are right of course.

[-] void_wanderer@lemmy.world 87 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thank you for your write up. It's becoming harder and harder to stay up to date on all the new wannabe fascists in Europe.

I'll drop in with my thoughts on it in Germany. In Germany, the far right party is at 20% in recent opinion polls. Scary. But 60% of the potential right voters say they just vote them out of protest. It wouldn't be that hard for the other parties to turn that ship around, but I don't see anything happening. The big parties are following their utterly liberal ultra capitalist line, which of course makes people poorer, which generates a lot of displeasure in these uncertain times. People are looking for simple answers. And while "smash capitalism" would be the simple correct answer for 98% of people, sadly there is no party that propagates that. So "it's because of the immigrants, it's because of the dictators in the EU" from the right that gets fed to the people as a simple answer, and they get the vote.

But IMO, this protest vote only goes to the right because of a lack of alternatives. The problem is our left party is too busy with wokeness topics (which are important, sure, but they still just don't resonate in most people) and in fighting among themselves. So nobody votes for them as a protest as they absolutely lack any substance right now. And our left still has a "Russia problem" as they mostly emerged from the letters of eastern Germany. This is course doesn't help. So people vote for the right.

I still hope a new left party would emerge, but as long as there isn't, and as long as the big center-"left" party doesn't change course, I see the rights just getting stronger. Especially since the center rights adopt talking points from the far right, as they see it gets them votes.

Another interesting (and scary) fact is, that the several right parties in Europe formerly were totally against Europe. They still are, just not openly anymore. Now they learned that in order to destroy the EU, it's easier to get voted into it, closing ranks with all the other nationalists, and starting to dismantle it from within.

I'll just repeat what @superkret@lemmy.world said, build networks, maybe we gonna need them soon!

[-] uint8_t@feddit.de 18 points 1 year ago

But 60% of the potential right voters say they just vote them out of protest.

voting for nazis "out of protest" is just a thin veiled excuse for voting nazis

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[-] xuxebiko@kbin.social 81 points 1 year ago

Religio-Fascists led by a megalomaniac took over India in 2014. People ignored their fascism and voted for religion :(

[-] Syl@jlai.lu 60 points 1 year ago

Doesn't look good in France as well. Macron doesn't control the cops, and they are assaulting people freely.

[-] Tetra@kbin.social 55 points 1 year ago

I worry about the seemingly inevitable Le Pen presidency even more. I don't feel safe at all in this country anymore.

Doing my best to move to Canada but I really don't have the money.
Even then, Canada might be in a better spot atm, but even there the fascist parties are gaining in influence; nowhere is safe.

[-] Syl@jlai.lu 14 points 1 year ago

I mean, Macron is already doing some authoritarian shit, forcing unpopular laws on people, cops assaulting people, we're currently sliding fast... but I'll stay. I have the money, but I won't leave the people here and I'll try to do the best I can to stop this shit.

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[-] ISOmorph@feddit.de 31 points 1 year ago

Germany's neo-nazi party AfD is polling scarily well too. All of EU is turning into an authoritan hellscape. My wife and I are seriously considering leaving.

[-] original_reader@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago

Where is it actually any better?

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[-] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 36 points 1 year ago

Yes, it is. Well done for describing what's happening. What do you think we should do about it, now we know it's happening?

[-] LollerCorleone@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

Don't vote fascists into power?

[-] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 30 points 1 year ago

That seems a little too late, they're already in power.

[-] quatschkopf34@feddit.de 26 points 1 year ago

Sure, I just tell the people voting for them not to do it. They‘ll certainly be understanding

[-] moitoi@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago

The left has its responsibility in this. People are struggling with the bills at the end of the month. The left speaks of minorities and has a similar neoliberal economic view. The politics on minorities are important and the left have to keep them in their program/agenda. Adopt a real left economic view.

But, people don't care about you if you're talking about it in the news and debates. The left has to center their campaign around the daily struggles to speak to the people with the people language.

The greens parties have a similar issue. People know them for ecology and ? People don't know the other parts of the program of the greens parties. They have to stop speaking about ecology and begin with the other topics so people knows how they can help them with the end of the month.

These all need to connect with people again with the people language.

[-] starlinguk@kbin.social 44 points 1 year ago

That's a typical fascist strategy, blaming other parties.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They do this shit in the UK, too - Conservatives have been in power for like 80% of the past 150 years, and the last time Labour were in power was nearly 20 years ago, and even then, they were run by neoliberals with no intentions to challenge the establishment even slightly, so nowhere near being actually left at all, yet somehow Labour and "the left" still get the blame for all of the wrongs in the country.

The fact that Blair back then, and Starmer now are clearly puppets working for the same master as the conservatives (capitalism and the status quo), rather than being an actual opposition, or looking out for the best interests of the people even a little, escapes them, just like the fact that when a socialist did run for PM, and was wildly popular, the establishment's media went on an absolute rampage to discredit him and make him "unelectable" because he posed a real and actual threat to them.

Anyone who looks at the state of politics (always, though it's especially obvious in recent years) and thinks genuine opposition could ever get in power, or that we could ever vote the existing power structure out, is being either wilfully ignorant, or has fallen for the propaganda hook line and sinker, and really shouldn't talk on the matter, because they're just making it worse by literally serving the interests of those they claim to oppose (by always shifting attention and blame somewhere else). (E: never mind the well established strategy of the right co-opting leftist ideas they never intend to follow, just to get the votes, while pointing to those who would actually follow those ideals and calling them "idealists" or just socialists as if those are negatives. and it works!)

And all of this is by design of course, the illusion of choice, the bread and circuses, all designed to make us feel like we have a say, without ever actually giving us one.

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[-] Misconduct@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry but does that say to weaken anti-torture? Did I read that right?

[-] 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 34 points 1 year ago

Yes, Meloni and Salvini see anti-torture laws as an unnecessary obstacle to the work of police officers. Here is an article (in Italian).

[-] hungryphrog 16 points 1 year ago
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[-] Syrc@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

I can’t even remember the last time Italy hit the news for a positive thing, we’re doing pretty well with this streak tbh

[-] zer0@thelemmy.club 20 points 1 year ago

It's not something new that is spreading, it has been the case for over a century. We have always been ruled by corrupted politicians, they always lies during elections and then push for authoritarian measures that benefits the elites. People seem to realize this only when the party they don't like gets elected, "left" and "right" is a trick to keep these two up in power in a cycle. This Meloni scum is nothing new, they are a puppet of people who have been ruling the country since 1945. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licio_Gelli

[-] djtech@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Saying that ALL politicians between the 1920s to the 2010s in Italy is wrong. You can search about De Gasperi, Berlinguer, Giolitti (I know, different eras) and others. I'm not saying everything they did was right, but they not all politicians are as bad as your comment is depicting.

[-] SamirCasino@lemm.ee 47 points 1 year ago

This attitude of "all politics and politicians are equally dirty" is straight out of the russian propaganda playbook. This is the narrative they've pushed in my country for decades, and it's chillingly effective. It closely resembles whataboutism, whenever you criticize a politician, people yell "AS IF THE OTHER SIDE IS BETTER."

Why push this narrative, you ask? So that people become so disillusioned and apathetic that they don't vote, so it takes less votes for Russia to get the parties it wants into power. It also breeds internal dissent, malcontent, instability, leads to low voter turnout.

Russia also pushes a version of this at home, and in allies like Belarus. The gist being, all politics is dirty and corrupt, don't get involved, don't vote, nothing matters, it doesn't concern you.

So yeah, sorry about the rant, but when i see variations of that quote "if your vote mattered, they'd make it illegal", i get really annoyed. If your vote mattered, they'd make you think it doesn't so you don't vote.

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[-] monobot@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

I would like to see what Italians see and think, it is easy to have limited view from outside.

If someone has link where Italians discuss this issues, my deepl translate is ready.

[-] WaDef7@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

Honestly I think the article is pretty fair, overall.

The biggest difference between having a massive right wing pseudo-fascist party in a government majority and that same party leading the majority is how little they feel the need to feign. Like now the right hand man of Meloni can totally bring up the craziest world conspiracy with no proof at all, say he didn't know it was a bad thing only to repeat the same things a week after.
The politicians just don't have to pretend anymore, and they're slowly stretching the boundaries of what's normal in favour of their own plans.

As for the life of everyday people, I'd be hard pressed to find someone, anyone, actually praising this government in public, everyone I hear talking about whatever they come up with is either disgusted or concerned.
I believe what's happening now is the same thing that was happening back in Berlusconi's days: the ones voting for these people are aware that what they're doing is wrong and they hide in shame until they're sure they're surrounded only by the right people.

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[-] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I’d say this swing to the hard right in Europe is partly the fault of the left. In many countries left wing parties were in power during the 80’s and 90’s. During their reign they failed to properly address the immigration and integration issues that came from the previous governments inviting lots of uneducated people over from North Africa and Turkey for cheap labor. People were already raising concerns that immigrants not integrating well could lead to problems. Yet the left would always put these people down as racists and then did nothing. Lo and behold thirty years later, 3rd gen immigrants from those countries lead the stats of unemployment, high school drop out and crime rates. Even if you correct those numbers for social economic backgrounds. Yes crime rates are overall falling but the crimes committed by these groups are very visible, like for example armed robberies, break-ins, blowing up ATMs, assault and even stabbings. Plus these immigrant youths who loiter all day and night make people feel unsafe in their own neighborhood since they often harass people and participate in vandalism. And the ranks of crime organizations are filled with these immigrants. It’s not really surprising that Europe is creeping to the right even the centrist liberal parties haven’t done enough to address those concerns, they probably made it even worse since all they cared about is the economy and the stock exchange and their tough on crime approach hardly did anything.

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this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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