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US surgeon general declares gun violence a public health crisis (apnews.com)

submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by GiddyGap@lemm.ee to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 28 points 4 months ago

I hope I can ask this without leading to a bunch of religious fervor about pro or anti-2A. For the record I support having some rights to guns, but as long as anyone claims 2A is a reason we can't have sensible legislation about guns, then I'm against 2A entirely. I say that in effort to establish I'm not asking in bad faith.

Violent crime is at an all time low, according to many articles. So how is gun violence at an all time high? Is there an excess of non-criminal gun violence? Like perhaps suicide is at a high? Police shootings making up the difference? Is there gun violence showing up in hospitals that isn't being reported to law enforcement? Is there a different standard of what constitutes gun violence between the healthcare and law enforcement communities?

I read the article and a couple of linked ones, but I couldn't find any answer. At first glance it doesn't seem like both things can be true, but I'm going to assume instead I'm just missing part of the picture, so what is it?

[-] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If you compare the US with countries with very strict gun laws, e.g. Europe, you'll probably find that the difference between their low gun violence rate and the high gun violence rate in the US is related to the easy access to weapons in the US.

It's also related to the general inequality in the US compared to Europe, especially economic. It created a lot of desperation in the US. But half the country is also not willing to do anything about that, because that's "socialism" or whatever. And round and round we go.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Sure but that isn't the point of my question, and treads perilously close to the area I'm trying to avoid. I'm not interested in the political decision here, but the facts that purport to underlie it.

I can't argue in favor of this action citing facts that not only seem to be bullshit, but also threaten to undermine the narrative that people don't need guns for protection because violent crime is so low.

Here we have the surgeon general saying gun violence is so bad it's an emergency. How is that going to play with people who hoard guns out of xenophobic paranoia over their own safety?

[-] jwelch55@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

Things can be better than they used to be, and still not be good or acceptable.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 3 points 4 months ago

Absolutely. I'm not saying this shouldn't have been done. But the article states the reason for it is an all time high gun violence and I'm just having trouble reconciling that with all time low violent crime.

If this is a tool that can be effective in addressing gun violence, I'm 100% for it. But I can't fucking stand bullshit. If you can't build a case for taking action without lying to people, stay at the drawing board until you work it out.

That said, just because something trips my bullshit meter doesn't mean it's a lie. So I'd be remiss not to seek out a better understanding. I'm damn sure going to be called out on it myself if I defend it to more right-leaning folks in my life, so my own reputation is on the line and I'm not going to be caught repeating bullshit when I argue so hard to get them to check their facts.

[-] nowitsabby 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I imagine it's stuff like these 2 articles linked in the op

https://apnews.com/article/gun-violence-science-health-covid-mental-20f5e2cb5fb50ff747fe316fdc4db5c4

https://apnews.com/article/violence-mass-shootings-summer-b004331ee7d3da95bce6646547f8d43f

The study shows gun violence rising, and that does include suicides. Though its most likely spurred on by the mass shootings mentioned in the second link. Taking those together explains the proposed measures.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 3 points 4 months ago

That makes sense. So you're suggesting that maybe the number of violent crimes has gone down but the number of victims per crime has gone up? It doesn't seem like there are enough mass shootings to account for that big of a difference, but I can see where it would contribute. Suicides seems to be the leading candidate for now.

[-] nowitsabby 3 points 4 months ago

Not all gun violence includes crimes (suicides), and not all violent crimes involve guns

[-] YaDownWitCPP@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

It's almost as if there is a narrative trying to be pushed regardless of whether it aligns with the facts...

[-] Okokimup@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

What constitutes violent crime? I would assume crimes that don't involve guns have gone down enough to make up the difference.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 3 points 4 months ago

That's definitely part of the question.

[-] Yearly1845@reddthat.com 4 points 4 months ago

Not all violent crime is gun violence.

You used to have 20,000 violent crimes a year, 500 of which were violent gun crimes. Now you have 5000 violent crimes a year and they're mostly gun violence, then violent crime would be at an all time low while gun violence was at an all time high.

I'm completely making this up, but that's how I read it.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 1 points 4 months ago

Could be. I just picture guns to be involved in a much larger proportion of violent crimes.

[-] lettruthout@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

Minutes later reports people threatening to shoot him because guns are not dangerous.

[-] thorbot@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Guns don’t kill people. I do.

[-] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

Guns are the tool used for people to kill people. It's a lot harder to drive a screw in without a screwdriver.

[-] slaughtermouse@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

.... I kill people ch ch with guns.

[-] terminhell@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

Nail guns ftw

[-] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Okay? I think it's been a fucking problem for a while but okay. Yay election years!!!

[-] fiercekitten@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

The headline for this story was corrected to reflect that the surgeon general, Dr. Vivek Murthy, had declared gun violence a public health crisis, rather than a public health emergency. The surgeon general does not have the power to declare a public health emergency.

OP might want to update the title of this post.

[-] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

Done. Thanks for the info.

this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2024

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