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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Blaze@sopuli.xyz to c/fediverse@lemmy.ml
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[-] RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml 119 points 1 year ago

A reminder to move to smaller instances for a better experience

A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.

Github Issue 2910 is the kind of PostgreSQL problems that the developers ignored for months and people still defend the developer choices to have the code doing real-time counting of every single comment and post for numbers nobody needs to needs done in real-time.

PostgreSQL is voodoo to this project, they do everything they can to avoid going to !postgresql@lemmy.ml community and asking for help, learning 101 about how to fix their SQL TRIGGER logic like Github Issue 2910 spelled out June 4.

[-] remkit@lemmy.kya.moe 42 points 1 year ago

I know you are salty about how you are getting treated over at GitHub, but you should look at it objectively, Blaze is clearly advocating that people join top instances that's not lemmy.world or lemmy.ml, not nobody instances that only have 1-2 users. They certainly aren't going offline as quickly as they come online.

[-] RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

I know you are salty about how you are getting treated over at GitHub

No, it isn't about my personal treatment. It's about the cultist attitude you have towards Lemmy and the leaders without any ability to see what they are doing behind the scenes with the code. I know cults and religious faith is how many people enjoy the world.

A 2-line SQL TRIGGER removal takes about minutes to fix. It was crashing the entire site constantly. They sat by and asked for donations of money.

[-] remkit@lemmy.kya.moe 25 points 1 year ago

No, it's everything to do about your personal treatment, stop deceiving yourself. Just because you claim you have autism doesn't immediately grant you the right to be entitled. You don't get your way so you spam create multiple issues to call out the developers, and you expect people to believe it isn't personal for you?

If you aren't happy with the Lemmy developers, fork the project, run your own fork, convince others to use your fork. It's a FOSS world, no one has to do what you say, even if you claim to be autistic.

[-] Ichebi@lemmy.pt 17 points 1 year ago

Telling someone "you claim you have autism" is extremely ableist to all disabled people.

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[-] Zetaphor@zemmy.cc 21 points 1 year ago

A 2-line SQL TRIGGER removal takes about minutes to fix.

Then go fix it and open a PR

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[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 30 points 1 year ago

A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.

I am always advocating for any of the top 25 instances that are not Lemmy.world or Lemmy.ml

For the rest of your post, I don't know what that has to do with people aggreating on LW.

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[-] Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.

And this will always.. always be the biggest problem in the FOSS community.

"I dont like X, so I'm going to leave and make my own version of X"

So userbases get spread thin, manpower gets spread thin, developers get spread thin, and the user experiences degrades for everyone until it pushes them back to the bullshit websites and products.

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 18 points 1 year ago

This is exactly what federation is meant to solve: power in numbers without the centralization. Is that so hard to understand?

[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 19 points 1 year ago

Sometimes I question why people not in favor of the decentralization are commenting on a Fediverse platform. Why not go to Tildes, Squabbles or another centralized alternative? There is plenty of fish in the sea.

[-] Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

This is another big problem in the FOSS

"If you dare offer valid criticism, then why are you even here? get out and go somewhere else!"

[-] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago

Your criticism is nonsensical. It's literally criticizing the purpose of the project.

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[-] average650@lemm.ee 88 points 1 year ago

You can also just have multiple accounts. I have one on lemm.ee just for this reason.

[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 13 points 1 year ago

Definitely!

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[-] LemmyAtem@beehaw.org 69 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Lemmy.one, my instance of choice, has been down since Thursday - just a reminder that smaller instance isn't always the solution. Having a few solid account choices on multiple instances is the way to go.

[-] EliasChao@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

It’s a bit frustrating though. If I didn’t know better about the fediverse, I would’ve thought Lemmy in general was down, with no heads up or somewhere to see what’s going on.

[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 year ago
[-] unbuckled@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

Does anyone know why?

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[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 30 points 1 year ago

Quoting myself from a previous post:

First of all, it's really fine to stay on LW for now, no need to rush anything. But if at some point you have some time for this, then read the following.

So, to pick your instance, you can have a look at https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list, filter by "1m" to see what are the most popular ones. As you can see, with a 27433 monthly users, Lemmy.world is by far the most popular, which is why you might experience some issues from time to time.

You should have a look at the next instances on the list. Short story: lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.one, sopuli.xyz and reddthat.com are solid choices.

You are looking at instances with quite a lot of people (the more people help with filling your "All" feed), just not the most populous one (lemmy.world), the original one (lemmy.ml), and instances that are too specific, either due to country or specific focus.

Long story:

spoiler

  • lemmy.ml is the original insance, also quite crowded, not really the best choice
  • lemm.ee can be nice, you can have a look at it and see how fast it is for you. The admin communicates a lot and is very helpful.
  • sh.itjust.works had some rough time in the last few days. You might also not like the name, that's okay.
  • beehaw.org does not federate with the big instances, so if you go there, you will be in their own space. It can a valid choice, but please have a look at their guidelines first, they tend to moderate a lot. Can work for you, or not.
  • feddit.de, lemmy.ca, discuss.tchncs.de, feddit.uk, aussie.zone are country specific instances, so probably not interesting to you if you are not from there
  • lemmynsfw is a NSFW instance, probably not the one you want to move to
  • programming.dev is an instance focused on programming
  • lemmy.blahaj.zone is a pro queer instance

.

To migrate your settings (including subscriptions and blocked instances), you can use that script: https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think there is a huge misconception many people have that a larger instance is more likely to stay around, but due to the nonlinear costs involved in hosting fediverse instances this is not true.

Basically there is a sweet-spot around a few thousand (~2500) members where costs are low enough for a single dedicate admin paying things out of their own pocket long term is possible, but also enough members willing to occasionally donate or contribute otherwise to cover costs.

[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 year ago

To be honest, I know it's a controversial view, but I would almost like to see Ruud and the LW admins block registrations for a while, along with a communication "Have a look at those other instances, they are well managed, you can access all of Lemmy just as well from there"

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[-] CMahaff@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

LASIM author here, ironically on my own alt: Just an FYI that support for Lemmy 0.18.3 is not yet out, but keep an eye out for it soon (I have it working on a branch but I need to test it more before release).

This is the first breaking API change since it's creation, so here are the limitations:

  • Old version (0.1.2) will only support API 0.18.1 and 0.18.2
  • New version (0.2.0) will only support 0.18.3 (and above until there are more breaking API changes)
  • Profiles downloaded with 0.1.2 (and below) will automatically be converted to work with 0.2.0.

So that all means:

  • You can use the old LASIM to migrate between 0.18.2 Lemmy instances
  • You can use the new LASIM to migrate between 0.18.3 Lemmy instances
  • You can use the old LASIM to download from an 0.18.2 instance then use the new LASIM to upload to a 0.18.3 instance
  • You cannot use the new LASIN to download from a 0.18.3 instance and then the old LASIM to upload to a 0.18.2 instance (unless you are comfortable doing some manual work editing the JSON file so "old LASIM" understands it).

This will be true of every release with breaking API changes.

EDIT: PR is out. Once it builds, I'll publish a new release! https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim/pull/21

EDIT 2: Release is published! https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim/releases/tag/v0.2.0

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[-] delendum@lemdit.com 25 points 1 year ago

The DB migration at the end of this upgrade is significant, I was surprised how long it took when I upgraded my instance. Lots of room for things to go wrong considering the size of their DB.

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[-] density@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago

when I start writing this comment, the post is 47 minutes old. if I understand the linked page properly, lemmy.world has been functional (all green checkmarks) for the past 10 minutes which is the furthest back the data goes. All the other instances are all green except for lemmy.one which is all red. I am assuming that 47 minutes ago, lemmy.world had red boxes?

Maybe a different link would have explained the point better but I don't really see how a 30 minute (??) server outage during an upgrade is compelling to avoid a large instance. Are you suggesting it's better to use a server whos admins don't upgrade? If not, is there really any size of server that would meaningfully avoid this kind of occasional disruption? Seems to me that the dynamism of the environment will inevitably lead to various problems. That's part of the experience. TBH threadiverse uptime on the whole is pretty impressive for such a ragtag groups of admins and devs.

I have accounts on some smaller servers but they have their drawbacks too. Using a bigger server is more convenient because the people and content is already there. It's easier. I didn't plan to use lemmy.world but I ended up making account there to use sometimes.

I think in a year or so the situation might be different. I see the ideological point and I would like it to be true. Maybe the technology will catch up. I think it would be nice to be able to programmatically seed content, but maybe that would be obnoxious to admins.

[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 year ago

I didn't track the timing too closely, but in the last few weeks there have been quite long disruption of service due to DDoS attacks on the largest instances.

I am personally quite tolerant towards Lemmy as a platform in its very infancy, but some other users might want to quit it due to this kind of annoyances, hence my comment about moving to a smaller instance.

the people and content is already there. It’s easier

What do you mean? You can access all of the content in the Threadiverse from whatever instance, modulo defederation, but Lemmy.world defederates quite a few instances too, so that's valid for both big and small instances. If you are talking about the "All" feed, which will indeed be empty if you are in a 10 people instances (communities need to be subscribed by an instance member for the instance to get the community content), then it's a valid issue, and that's why I suggest people to move to one of the 24 biggest instances that are not LW or Lemmy.ml

Lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, sopuli.xyz, reddthat.com, lemmy.one, your country instance (if it's big enough). I'm on sopuli since a while now, and I'm very happy with the experience. 680 monthly active users, so the All feed is pretty much identical to the one on Lemmy.world, except the vey niche community I either don't care about or would already know by myself.

The biggest issue I see with having everyone on LW is that at some point the costs will be too high for the admins. It's quite a big risk, and that why I'm advocating to use smaller instances.

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[-] Thief@lemmy.myserv.one 21 points 1 year ago

Just make a second account, the one I run, lemmy.myserv.one is so underutilized its a joke. Smaller instances like mine basically have to beg for users and the server goes unused while bigger instances struggle under the constant traffic.

[-] CoderKat@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because using random tiny servers is worse in other ways. With all due respect, nobody knows you and they don't know how committed you are or how much time you have. When your server gets DDoSed or hits a bug causing data loss, what will you do? Do you have the technological know-how to recover and quickly? If your server suddenly grew and it became more expensive to run, how does anyone know if you will keep paying the bills? If Lemmy has a bad zero day, will you upgrade quickly?

There's no need to answer these questions. I'm not actually asking you personally. But these are the kinds of questions that users have to worry about from random, small, unproven instances.

(Also, Lemmy does not favour small instances because the "all" feed, searching, and going to new communities are all better the more diverse users you have.)

[-] Thief@lemmy.myserv.one 14 points 1 year ago

Yes obviously the barrier to entry is high. But nobody knows for the big servers either since they are basically just small instances that happened to get big. Thats why lemmy.fmhy.ml just died one day due to domain seizure. End of the day all you can do is look at how long a server has been around and if it has be online a reasonable amount of time. That kind of reputation just increases slowly and nobody can make it happen faster.

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[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 19 points 1 year ago

As always, I have to ask: is there a second admin, what would happen to the instance if something happened to you tomorrow (which I really wish will not!)

The Vlemmy.net disaster is still fresh in people's mind

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[-] DawnOfRiku@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

Of course I have one or two other accounts, but I personally like Lemmy.world. They serve as a necessary stress test that shows the devs and admins how to optimize further, and I just like learning admin practices at this scale of a userbase from a work perspective. Plus I don't want to be on an instance so small they can't or don't know how to handle compliance stuff and evaporate if something like that comes up. Not saying I know how to handle all of those situations, that's the job of someone else at work.

[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 15 points 1 year ago

I think that's one of the issues that the rest of the instances are facing to appear as trustful as LW. LW admins have a long established reputation and experience managing Fediverse services, and provide very good transparency and a large team.

Other instances are usually nowhere close to that (some will be in the future I hope). The question I usually raise when someone start promoting their instance is "how many admins do you have?´What happens if you run under a bus tomorrow (hopefully you'll stay safe of course)? Is there a back up plan in place?"

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[-] nanometer@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

Lemm.ee is amazing with a top admin

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[-] Madiator2011@lm.madiator.cloud 11 points 1 year ago

I moved to self hosting mine instance :)

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this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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