It makes me wonder how many other people back out after hearing that the job is on-site. And it makes me wonder why this wasn't specified in the job description
They're trying not to get filtered by having it listed as on site up front, and banking on people saying "well, I'm already foot in the door i guess i could settle" once the interview process starts.
Which is already a red flag right there. Too bad there are no real consequences for their attempting to lie & cheat their way towards finding someone willing to put up with their BS, and at this point I don't mean the on-site factor that is perhaps a legit need that they may have. It's just how capitalism works, except that they'd really rather it work for rather than against them...:-(
I've been remote for over a decade; not going to stop now.
Same here. There is no reason to make me far less productive other than I'm pretty and people want to gaze at me adoringly in an office setting. It's a weird fetish I guess, but I've seen weirder.
Not even for a "Fruity Tuesday"???
I'd consider one, but it'd have to pay considerably more. Like, 50% or more above what I'd otherwise expect for a fully remote position, and it would have to be an easy commute.
In most cases it's adding 20-30% to the length of the work day when the commute is included, plus costs of transportation itself. Plus the general inconvenience and the fact that it's almost always going to mean a more toxic culture. But if the pay and benefits were absolutely fantastic, I'd consider it, at least short-term.
From what I've heard, most people that are for in office work like having the separation between work and home.
That being said, I think most folks want remote work or at least remote hybrid. It just makes more sense especially for me. I live far from my office (140 mile drive roundtrip), and working 3 days a week from home has been a god send.
I did notice that the only people not opting for WFH/hybrid at my last job were all the married-with-kids types who hated being around their family and used work as an escape. It was really sad to see lol
There’s a psychological stress with work that can take some time to slough off.
Some people don’t want to log out of work and be grumpy or distracted during family time.
That being said having a process or system as a habit to denote work/home is a good alternative.
A 10 minute walk, a change of clothes, or some song you play, anything that creates a mental delineation. So the annoyance from that way too long meeting asking why something isn’t done (4 hours a day giving out status updates isn’t helping) doesn’t come out on the family.
That's understandable but like... you could go to a coffee shop or literally rent office space nearby to where you live - it doesn't have to be all one way or the other. Anyway, if they truly do enjoy being surrounded by people then I don't want to knock their totally valid preferences, just to say that there are other ways.
There's also a huge value to people working in the same space.
Random conversations solve a lot of problems.
And I'm someone that finds being in an office around people constantly to be exhausting. I just recognize the value.
I can chat with someone for hours on end, but I also like using my own toilet, and having access to a tea, snack, etc.
For me, what blocks having random conversations is having 1-3 hours of status updates daily - it doesn't leave much leftover to do the work especially when my firm declaration that it was going to take twice as long as someone else estimated (and then sure enough it did, at minimum, and maybe taking 10x) is ignored. That would block conversations regardless?
Anyway, the conversations are the content, but them being present physically is only the medium, so WFH does not need to block them, and if anything can help facilitate them e.g. working one in-between other meetings whereas the time taken to physically walk over would have been prohibitive.
You can replicate that remotely. I've had days where 2-3 people joined a call to share something and then kept that call in the background for hours, chatting about random things while working.
Not wanting to work in a crowded home has nothing to do with disliking your family. Kids are loud. They run around the house. They watch TV with the volume set too high. They have excited calls with their friends. Many home builders skimp on noise insulation for interior walls.
From my open office experience, it is often not better with colleagues. A lot of noise, distractions, useless conversations. That is not as bad as kids, but this is why I always dreamt to WFH. I will always be grateful to the person who under cooked that bat in 2019.
My brain definitely focuses better with environmental cues. I mean, I can work just about anywhere, but if I'm not in the mood, then having the environmental cues displaces alternatives. Subjectively, I feel more productive at work. Never had a really bad commute, so I was never motivated to try to set up a 'work-only' space at home, but I'd only do a 70 mile one-way drive for very special occasions.
I might get down voted, but even for software dev, not all jobs can be done remotely. Software may need to interact with hardware, which requires to be on site. I am all in for hybrid or remote work, but totally see why some jobs require to be "on site"
I am an embedded developer, I take the HW from office to bring at home, in the basement I have my "home office" with benches, soldering station, oscilloscope, etc so I can fully develop here. Working on a kitchen corner table would not be doable, true
We had an IT person quit this year because we transitioned to fully remote after they closed down the office in December 2020. He couldn't handle working from home.
Some people probably do not have home lives that they enjoy, I can imagine that.
It's not necessarily that they dislike the people, either. It could be an issue if the other people/animals at home aren't cooperative with your need to work, despite being lovely in normal home situations. It could be a total lack of cooperative workspace - no desk space, too cluttered, areas already dedicated to other home tasks, noisy neighbors, easy distractions, etc. And then some people are just wholly impatient, who can't identify what they need to make their home space more like their office space. Personally, I played a bunch of video games in 2020. I felt I performed better overall because blocking off an hour of game campaign kept me off my phone most of the day. Now I sit in an office again, scrolling here for more than an hour each day.
But yes, I had a number of coworkers in 2020 that came back as soon as they could in order to get away from their families again. Work was their herculean daily task that gave them an excuse to be away from families and be too tired to engage with them after work. The kind that always joked "gonna go home, hit the wife, and fuck the dog"
It's not always outright negativity, but it can be.
I have plenty of coworkers that are thrilled when we have an in-office event. And some that choose to go there to work every day.
I can't understand them, but well, it makes them happy.
You're talking specifically about software based IT jobs.
Those of us who deal with the hardware have always been and will always be on-site and hands on.
I don’t want to bring work into my home, plus I like meeting people. The only problem is the commute.
I work with a few who prefer the office over work from home. I think they need a way to escape the house/wife/kids and the office is the only quiet place they have to work.
I work with a few who prefer the office over work from home.
It does allow for a more clean break between work and non-work mindset.
I find it helps maintain a more healthy work-life balance.
Plus, I work on hardware, so it's not like I can do that remotely most of the time anyway.
I dont know if I agree with the work life balance.
Shower, groom, dress and commute starting at 6.30am, work 8.30–5.30 and commute to 6.30/7
or work 8.45-5.15ish and maybe spend an extra hour or two coupla times a week?
Huge difference.
My dad is the only human being I know that likes his on-site IT job, but that's probably because he's getting away from the miserable woman he married for a few hours a day.
My company went remote first in April 2020. Even if I left here, there's no way in hell I'm going back to an office.
I guess I'm rare in that I like working in an office. My house is for relaxing and enjoying my time, so the few times I did WFH I really just want to curl up on the couch instead of work.
Keep this in mind, some places raises will barely cover inflation.
Now factor in gas and, most importantly, time spent commuting.
All that on top of effectiveness in working with social interruptions, trips to the coffee machine, bathroom breaks, lunch, etc.
Any of these businesses that are pushing for on-site are locked into costs from renting space - guarantee it. I get wanting to do the occasional face showing or in person meetings, but they should be concise and few in number - if they’re an efficient shop. Plenty of new blood that get the value of hybrid/remote work.
I really want fully on-site jobs. If i work at home then i never get mental separation of work and life, and so i feel like i can never actually live. It happened to me with all of my schooling and honestly with the distress it causes me, I'd be better off not living at all than working at home.
About a third of the developers in my office choose to come into the office every day because they do not have a home office setup or they prefer to have that separation between work and home.
I've been remote for the 3 years of work experience that I've had. I live in a city with piss poor public transportation and detest traffic, plus I enjoy waking up 10 minutes before having to clock in.
The pay and perks would have to be substantial for me to consider working on-site.
In my team, 2 out 15 people come to the office regularly, because they prefer the separation of work from free time.
I can definitely see some benefits from being on-site. You do occasionally just run into people, who can tell you really useful things for your job. And it's definitely harder to keep track of what my wider team is working on, since we've gone mostly remote.
But those benefits just as well evaporate when "on-site" becomes two or more locations. I'm not going to run into someone who's in a different office in a different city.
If I have to actively work together with people from different locations, I will also be wearing headphones all day, not able to socialize with the people around me. That makes it rather pointless to go into the office.
And yeah, just the flexibility of being at home is really useful. I can take a break from work to load my washing machine. I can sleep until 5 minutes before my first meeting. Or I can walk to the store in the morning, when it's still cool outside.
So yeah, personally, I certainly wouldn't go back to a fully on-site job, unless it's somehow the best job in the world in other ways.
I've been fully onsite basically the whole time, including during the pandemic, for me it's been fine. Gets me out of my tiny studio apartment and keeps my work life at work. Also free A/C / heating at work.
The commute is also part of that decision making - for me the commute is a long walk outside to/from work every day. All that walking around outside sort of levels me out mentally & gets rid of any stress I had, not to mention the exercise.
I would rather not be employed. I hated everything about my in-office jobs. The clothes, the pointless small talk, the "quick sidebars" that end up being longer than a meeting but could've just been a text conversation. The only thing I miss was lunchtime banter and finding fellow nerds to infodump with.
I would any day. I need my work life and home life to be separate or I go nuts.
It really depends on where the office is in relation to your home.
Before covid and going WFH, the office was only 5 miles away on roads with no traffic. I would go back to this, no problem. Just enough to keep you on a schedule and get out of the house.
The biggest benefit of an office is that when you leave, you are gone until tomorrow.
When everyone is WFH, you never completely leave the office. I know boundaries, but in many cases, the lines can get a bit fuzzy.
The only argument I see in favour of office time is if your home situation doesn't allow you to focus - family, kids and so on, or if you deliberately want a physical separation and you don't have a dedicated office space at home.
My job I'm classified as remote. And I like it that way. Recently they have decided that a bunch of people even if remote will now have to come on site at least hybrid. For "collaboration". I even noted that in my employment contract I had in there that I was to work from home, to which HR said that they really don't care.
My last year-end review was stellar. Top marks, praises from multiple departments, even got a promotion.
But I happen to live to close to a location, so there's 'simply nothing that can be done'. So I've already started looking for different work.
Software developer here, WFH since March 2020, I don't want to go back to office. If I would apply for a new job, my first question would be "is this 99% remote?" because I don't mind once a month going there from like 10 to 2 to avoid trafic jam.
Software developer here. I only apply for onsite jobs if I believe I will be able to formally or informally switch to hybrid once I build some trust.
I have a pretty good hybrid situation, where it’s probably good for me to get dressed and out of the house twice a week. It helps that it’s only three mile commute with no traffic. I’d probably look for that, even if I don’t like going in.
That being said, we hire across many time zones and I don’t even work with local people so I’m not sure the point. Why is my company wasting money on a local office so I can be on Zoom all day, but can’t spend the travel budget even once for me to meet the people I work with (from Boston, I generally work with people in London, Toronto, Bangalore)
I run a development department, and nobody who reports to me comes to the office. We have been 100% remote since 2020... much to the chagrin of HR. Others in IT come in, but no developers. I see no reason to change it either. I question why I even come in most days.
Without looking it up, I don't know how many people I've interviewed over the last 4 years, but there's been a few. I've only had one person who indicated he wanted to be in an office. Every other person wants fully remote. The most common comment I've heard from people is saying they will settle for hybrid if full-remote isn't available.
There's some value to having people work together in-person, but I'd rather give my teams the flexibility to choose for themselves rather than force it.
That’s weird it wasn’t in the job posting. Seems like they’re wasting their time talking to candidates that aren’t interested in on-site.
I only want remote. The company I work for was once extremely remote friendly. Like 75% of job postings from them were for remote. Now they’ve changed to hybrid or fully on-site at the word from the CEO and like only 5% of open roles are remote.
They kept me remote, but my interactions with others are much less remote friendly. I’m looking for a new job, but will have to be for a company that is mostly remote itself.
I prefer to work in the office.
Lower utility bills for me. What little I spend in gas, yeah it’s a no brainier.
Also as the chair/desk/etc wears out, the company pays for it. It’s not like they give me the difference if I work from home.
My only complaint is led lights. Companies don’t understand what they are doing when they buy the lights.
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