“I didn’t see it therefore it never existed” is the most insane fucking logic to me
Agreed, yet it's one of the most common logical fallacies.
And stupid when obviously the only question one would need to ask in this context is "are there trans people over 30?" And the answer is "absolutely fucking yes"
So Heather thinks that no one talked about it because it simply hadn't occurred to anyone rather than being afraid?
Or is Heather saying she preferred it when they suffered in silence?
I think Heather is saying that it's either a fad, or a deliberate corruption spread by Those People. Either way, it's not real and trans people are either evil or stupid, and Life Was Better before we had this evil and/or stupidity in it.
Heather is stupid.
My dad's best friend from high school transitioned...I can't remember when I first met him (used to be "her"), but it had to be sometime in the late 90s/early 2000s, and I was just a teenager. He had fully transitioned by that point. I remember thinking that made sense. It was before the culture war types discovered trans people and decided they were the literal devils. To me it sounded simple--as a kid Tracy always felt like she was a boy. So when she could afford it, she got surgery to fix her body to match what her brain was, since that's easier and less risky than changing your brain to match your body. It sounded to me like getting a prosthetic if you're born without a limb or something. Or getting an amputation if you're born with an extra limb. Like, you were born with something wrong with your body and you fixed it, not a big deal.
It wasn't until much much later that I realized how rare Tracy was for that time period...not just because the kind of biological mistake he fixed is statistically rare (which I understood as a kid), but because the vast, vast majority of people born that way hide it (which I did not understand). I also didn't really have a concept of "gender" as a different thing than "sex" at that point...I don't think the vocabulary for that really existed except maybe in a few academic circles. So to me, she was a she until she transitioned, then she became he. She had a problem, now he doesn't.
It also confused the fuck out of me when people started saying hateful shit about trans people. Like, no, I know a trans person, he's cool as hell, we went kayaking together.
So when she could afford it, she got surgery to fix her body to match what her brain was, since that’s easier and less risky than changing your brain to match your body.
Just a small point. If we had any medical/scientifically validated method to "change her brain to match her body", Conservatives would be railing non-stop to only allow that instead of allowing/promoting what we currently know as gender transition. It would still be wrong because it would literally be brainwashing.
I was born in the early 90s and there was an AFAB person who very early on insisted they were actually a boy. I do remember thinking it was weird when I was a kid but the more they presented masculine the more it became "That's just the way they are" and I accepted it.
They were masculine presenting as early as 4th grade if I remember correctly. They were a beacon of light in high school for other queer people who hadn't figured themselves out yet. And they were super nice and friendly so everyone liked them.
They waited until our first year of college before asking us to refer them with he/him pronouns. It just made sense. I had a better understanding of gender and its spectrum by this point so it I remember thinking "finally."
Unfortunately he was in a car accident not too long after, and passed away. The world is sincerely lesser from his passing.
My daughter goes to school with a transboy. I suspected he was trans from his behavior, haircut, etc. the first time when he and my daughter were at a pool party together when they were 9 years old. I'm so glad we live in an era where it's more comfortable (although there's still a long way to go) for someone like him to be who they really are.
I had a trans classmate in high school. We weren't friends, he was a real jerk for the first two years I knew him, until he socially transitioned between sophomore and junior year. He mellowed out a lot after that, but we still never really made friends.
I'm now in music education and have encountered multiple trans students. The one that sticks out to me the most is the kid whose parents didn't accept him as trans, because he told us we had to deadname him and misgender him any time his parents were around, which, unfortunately, included when he was on stage during a bit of a show he was in in which part of the production was everybody getting introduced during one of the songs. I know he really appreciated us accepting him and having his back like that, but I hated that we had to do that.
That super sucks about your friend. So unfair that he finally felt comfortable with his identity, and then crashed straight into /c/fuckcars.
Not being aware of something existing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You are not the center of the world. Jesus christ.
There was a trans girl in my high school in the 90s. She was lucky in a way because she was also drop-dead gorgeous, so even a lot of the asshole bigot kids who knew she was trans didn't say anything in case other kids would make fun of them for having a crush on her.
There was a trans girl in my school in the late 90s and she was a total scheming bitch who tried to get my girlfriend to dump me.
I have very vivid memories of the one out trans person I knew back then lol
I graduated in '89. Queer as a $3 bill always was, but you didn't say that shit in high school back then. Just being gay was dangerous enough, can't imagine how being trans would have gone over.
If you did try to be who you were, you ended up ostracized at best, dead in a ditch at worst. I chose the lunch tray route, but outside of school...
'89 here as well. If people think gay folk have it bad now, friends and neighbors, I can tell stories.
Gay rights jumped 900% in relatively few years. It's why the conservatives are shitting themselves. Now they're told they have to, at least, tolerate the people they used to hate. Can't stomach it.
In 1999 my boyfriend wouldn't hold my hand or show any affection outside the house for fear. Gays now don't even know what the pride rallies are for
Graduated 03... Didn't know trans was a thing. Nobody spoke about it. The concept of "transsexuals" was limited to trans women and them basically only in the concept of riddicule so had no idea trans men could exist...
I had no words for what I was. No community. Just a sense of being isolated from every other person with thoughts that made me sound crazy even to myself. I hosted a bunch of desires I knew would make me end up more alienated and alone than I already was if I even tried to voice them.
Funnily enough I also snapped and tried to beat a bully with a hockeystick. I was a gentle kid who wanted to hurt no one and because I was locked inside myself everybody took a turn treating me like shit because I was quiet. Thankfully my teachers got it. My parents were not even phoned, the teachers just acted like it was any other day of the week. I owe those folks a lot.
To everyone who went to school before the heliocentric model was introduced, do you remember anyone talking about how they thought the Earth may not be the center of the galaxy? No.. Me neither.
Heather is, unfortunately, very typical. It didn't happen in her world so therefore it wasn't really a "thing"
I'm always surprised at how people can't seem to imagine a world that isn't a mirror image of their reality.
I used to have a group of kids follow me home throwing rocks at me every day for like a week. No adult did anything about it. So eventually, I picked up a rock and threw it back and hitting one of them in the face.
I was punished by the school, even though this didn't even happen at school. I was punished by my parents. The bullies were not punished ever, and they never stopped.
Graduated near 2000 and yes I remember several and several more who waited until after they graduated to come out about it.
I think most people who "dont remember" are people from groups that it wouldn't be kosher to come out around. I also image racist people didn't have a lot of nonwhite friend's go figure.
I finished school in the 90s. We had a guy in our class who was very not straight. Although we were sometimes nice to him we also bullied him and I still feel guilty about it to this day. Last I heard he identified as a female but that was second hand info 15 years ago. I have no idea what happened to him/her. I wish I could apologise but have no way to even contact them or know where to start.
Absolutely true. No one (well, very few, even the obvious ones) was even openly gay before the 2000s
People who weren't around as at least a teen before 2000s have no clue how silent anyone was on being gay. It just about never was discussed
It was not a safe thing to admit. Being trans would be significantly worse for them I'm sure
The original question is just groomer-accusing trash, probably by someone who indoctrinates children religiously and are scared another group "with an agenda" might get to them first
Yep. Nobody was out in the 90s. None. The one goth kid that wore a tiny bit of eyeliner was a big fucking deal and he was straight (had a big tiddy goth gf).
Yes actually. Knew a guy that talked about it to close friends a lot in the late 90s. He's (she's) openly trans now.
If you don't know what to use you're in luck, english has "they" that's neutral, no need to invent a new pronoun (like in french) or to find roundabout ways to not use a specific gender in your phrase.
People didn't talk about wanting a sex change, but loads of us hated our bodies and wanted to wake up in different ones. Given the option and institutional support and reassurance that transitioning would help us, many of us probably would have been convinced to do so
This is actually one of my primary concerns regarding transgenderism in the modern day. I think it's a tool in the toolbelt for when it's necessary. I also think it's a tool we reach for much more often than is necessary.
The comparable example I like to give is adhd. It isn't binary. You don't just have it or don't have it. Some people have symptoms that need no intervention. Some people have symptoms but are misdiagnosed as adhd. Other people get by with therapy alone. Yet others find medication necessary to be functional.
Giving gender affirming care to all people with gender or body dysphoria is like giving high dose Adderall to all people who have trouble paying attention in history class. It's the nuclear option, and you're using it on someone who may not even have adhd, or may not require such a strong intervention.
I know everyone hates this word, but starting with more conservative treatments first is the norm throughout healthcare for exactly this reason. We've made an exception for transgender people for political reasons, not scientific ones.
You already have to go through tons of therapy and other conservative treatments before you get a sex change operation. That exists TODAY. Same with abortion.
No one can get it on a whim. Doctors require requisites to make sure it's right for you, and it should stay up to the doctors' discretion.
It's nonsense saying it's overused as if doctors and the patient don't know what they're about to go through.
Funny how no one ever considers this. It’s like they think some 12 year old can one day on a whim go to their doctor and ask for a sex change and they’ll start them on meds that day like hey I didn’t see my kid for the afternoon and now he’s got breasts what the hell!
Gender affirmative care isn't even specific to transition care. It's any surgery that is intended to make the recipient feel more like their gender e.g. breast implants, cosmetic chest surgery to fix concave chest.
How about, if people want a sex change operation, you let them have it? Why have a discussion at all?
If people want to get a tattoo all over their face, society lets them, no therapy necessary. If people want to mutilate their nipples and genitals with piercings, no therapy necessary.
Just, let people be themselves, get out of their way.
We've made an exception for transgender people because withholding care leads directly to worse, catastrophically worse, life outcomes. We don't start with conservative options when treating severe PCOS or similar disfiguring conditions. That's a bad faith argument. The younger you transition, the better your chance of living a normal life. The more gatekeeping there is, the more lives you ruin, forever. Gatekeeping gender affirming care leads directly to a lifetime of ostracization and eventual suicide.
Someone has reported this as "transphobic" so I just want to be clear that every situation is different and people are entitled to express their concerns. There are people who are living their best life afterwards and people that do not get what they expect out of transitioning. It is complex and not something I'm going to sit here and pretend I even understand 100%. I'm just the mod, not an expert. That being said, I'm not just going to censor anyone on here for a mild skepticism. That is your teachable moment if you have something to say. Some people really never never encounter these issues first hand. That doesn't mean they're coming from a place of hate, just confusion, ignorance, etc. Let us be wary not to confuse the two paths and let us remember love leads everyone back regardless of the path. And that's all I've got to say about that. :)
I cleared year 12 in 1995 and I could have called myself trans, except there was no such word. I was just a boy who wanted long hair and girls clothes and toys. One of my happiest early memories was when the guy at the holiday spot lolly kiosk addressed me and my sister as girls
If the word existed, I wouldn't have used it since I was bullied for my accent, my height, my name. I knew from an early age that you couldn't be different
I wasn't expelled when I punched a bully in the mouth in 3rd grade primary school. I was told it was wrong, but it worked, I wasn't bullied any more in the last 3 years at that school
I wasn't expelled (or punished at all) from high school when I threw the desk at a bully in year 10, and that also stopped the bullying for the two remaining years there
By the time I heard the word trans I was very much shaped and socialised to my assigned gender.
I've always wanted to tell this kind of story in fiction:
Someone goes 90% of the path down a 'Joker' story - they're mistreated and abandoned by society, unable to live, much less achieve their dreams, basically because of their lot in life. They've caused extreme, grievous harm that could genuinely be categorized as self-defense. Then, just as they're planning some final, very climactic action with some strong weaponry to remove someone that makes them feel unsafe, someone DOES hear them out - and saves them from the path of becoming a full anti-hero, establishing in a large venue of society that every "heinous" action of his was a necessary act for human sanity, and could have been avoided by countless people in their path. Those who wronged him receive due punishment, and the cruelty he's been exposed to is revealed to society at large.
Granted, that kind of thing does sound like a hero power fantasy; but when 90% of the anime I see these days is trash isekai "I'm overpowered in this alternate world" type of stuff, it feels like a fantasy we want to have these days.
A story where the protagonist is swayed from violence to gain revenge is desperately needed
Media really promotes violence and revenge as proper things to do
Anecdotally, yea. Army kid life so I didnt meet her until high school of 2007-8. I was friends with a girl who sort of did become trans later. In high school we were friends and went on like 1 or 2 dates, but it didn't really work. Left high school and years of emailing later she came out as not caring what pronouns and dressing androgynous. I don't talk to her any more just due to time passing and living 500 miles different. Loosely fits this bill because we would have started school right before the turn of the M.
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