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submitted 2 weeks ago by sverit@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.ml
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[-] Sneptaur@pawb.social 166 points 2 weeks ago

Importantly, if you have already opted out of sending data to Mozilla, this change will not affect you. It only sends data if you have the setting turned on. It takes just a few clicks to entirely disable it, and Mozilla deletes all record of your browser within 30 days from turning off this feature. If you're worried about it, do it now, it's just under Settings > Privacy & Security. Instructions are also linked in the blog post.

[-] GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml 72 points 2 weeks ago

I'm not a fan of the telemetry being enabled by default but having the option to completely disable it makes it not that bad. Though Mozilla definitely doesn't need search history data (unless the law enforcements told them to collect it) so this change is kinda sus

[-] Sneptaur@pawb.social 44 points 2 weeks ago

It seems like a profit-driven thing to me. Big piles of anonymized data are worth a pretty penny.

[-] ID411@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 weeks ago

Mozilla famous non-profit status notwithstanding of course

[-] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 22 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Mozilla Foundation has a wholly owned subsidiary that is Mozilla Corporation that is for-profit.

For instance the revenue from Google, so they’re the default search engine, is seen by Mozilla Corporation. So things search-related will indeed be part of their for-profit arm.

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[-] Sneptaur@pawb.social 9 points 2 weeks ago

A non-profit can, in fact, profit, but it has specific rules on what it can do with those profits. Tax law is a rabbit hole and I don't even wanna peer in

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[-] Vincent@feddit.nl 6 points 2 weeks ago

From what I read in their blog post, nobody is keeping your search history data. It only tracks how often people in general search for things in specific categories, so nobody will be able to learn anything about you specifically from that data.

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[-] beejjorgensen@lemmy.sdf.org 81 points 2 weeks ago

I'm on the "OK but keep an eye on it" train, here.

Devs need feedback to know how people are using the product, and opt-out tracking is the best way to do it. In this case, it seems like my personal data is completely unidentifiable.

I was coding in the IE6 era, so I'd really prefer to not end up in a browser engine monoculture again.

[-] Reawake9179@lemmy.kde.social 29 points 2 weeks ago

I don't need freaking suggestions from the browser, that's the job of the search engine of my choice.

[-] cupcakezealot 9 points 2 weeks ago

most search engines don't keep anonymous search data so that's what firefox is trying to fix.

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[-] BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de 75 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Its exactly this kind of bullshit that firefox should not do...

[-] hal_5700X@sh.itjust.works 73 points 2 weeks ago

To disable it in about:config

browser.search.serpEventTelemetry.enabled = false

browser.search.serpEventTelemetryCategorization.enabled = false

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[-] Blisterexe@lemmy.zip 48 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

This looks fine, the browser just puts your search into a category like "health" or "tech", then sends the amount of each category completely anonymously.

Also, if you've opted out of data collection already that setting applies to this too.

[-] mouse@midwest.social 21 points 2 weeks ago

I agree. I am someone who values their privacy and often does not like opt-out style analytics however I also know opt-in skews analytics. The way the searches are only categorized, and they are using Oblivious HTTP keeping IP addresses private makes me A-OK with this.

[-] Blisterexe@lemmy.zip 12 points 2 weeks ago

This is the best take so far, I totally agree

[-] not_a_king@beehaw.org 31 points 2 weeks ago

i know they're a company and they need to float, but this should be opt in not opt out

[-] GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml 27 points 2 weeks ago

Yes but we really should be grateful to have a somewhat mainstream open-source browser with a great ecosystem of extensions and ability to turn off the telemetry. It could've been much worse

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[-] Blisterexe@lemmy.zip 22 points 2 weeks ago

Opt-in telemetry is useless telemetry, they make it opt-out because its the only way to get representative numbers

[-] GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 weeks ago

Why do you need unwilling representing numbers in the first place? Just ask advanced users on the official forum about what they want to see added. You only really need error logs that are absolutely opt-in

[-] jackalope@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 weeks ago

"advanced users" on forums are rarely very representive of users as a whole.

[-] drwho@beehaw.org 19 points 2 weeks ago

The number of people who actually change their default settings is quite small. Those of us who have these discussions are a distinct minority in the sum userbase.

[-] GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago

I used this fact a lot in arguments and I agree. What I'm saying is that it could be worse

[-] drwho@beehaw.org 5 points 2 weeks ago

And I agree with you.

[-] Blisterexe@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 weeks ago

I have not seen a single case where advanced users have the same opinions as the average one

[-] heavyboots@lemmy.ml 30 points 2 weeks ago

All we want is 1990s Google, guys. That's really all we want. None of this AI BS that kind find a country in Africa that starts with a K, just Google without the evil enshitification layer on top.

[-] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

I think people forget how awful google pre ~2008 was. Not in terms of the bullshit they do nowadays, just in quality of results really.

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[-] lud@lemm.ee 26 points 2 weeks ago

Remember, you can always opt out of sending any technical or usage data to Firefox. Here’s a step-by-step guide on how to adjust your settings. We also don’t collect category data when you use Private Browsing mode on Firefox.

[-] cupcakezealot 24 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

firefox develops an optional predictive search feature like every other search engine and browser has that actually protects user privacy that can easily be turned off so naturally the internet loses their mind over it and declares firefox dead.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 7 points 2 weeks ago

don't worry, it's balanced out by the every other day threads of firefox shills screeching about how much more private it is and how it uses so much less ram.

people never want to admit that things aren't black and white.

[-] onlinepersona@programming.dev 18 points 2 weeks ago

To improve Firefox based on your needs, understanding how users interact with essential functions like search is key.

Buddy, I just want to type a search term and get results. Stop spying on my search. Your only job is to transfer it to the server and then present the result. I don't need you to suggest some bullshit to me, or think of "ways to improve search".

This helps us take a step forward in providing a browsing experience that is more tailored to your needs, without us stepping away from the principles that make us who we are.

No. What the fuck? They are sounding more and more like Google. We need a new alternative that isn't built from Gecko or Blink or whatever the engines are called.

Anti Commercial-AI license

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 9 points 2 weeks ago

Buddy, I just want to type a search term and get results.

Telemetry can help them do better at providing that. Devs aren't magical beings, they don't know what's working and what's not unless someone tells them.

[-] onlinepersona@programming.dev 8 points 2 weeks ago

That's like saying the window pane between me and the teller has to understand the conversation and dynamically modify the light between him and I. The window pane's only job is to let light through. Keep it at that.

Anti Commercial-AI license

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 5 points 2 weeks ago

No, this analogy would make more sense if it was a matter of recording a large number of interactions between customers and tellers to ensure that the window isn't interfering with their interactions. Is the window the right size? Can the customer and teller hear each other through it? Is that little hole at the bottom large enough to let through the things they need to physically exchange? If you deploy the windows and then never gather any telemetry you have no idea whether it's working well or if it could be improved.

[-] onlinepersona@programming.dev 5 points 2 weeks ago

You're describing telemetry to improve the overall performance of the window. That's very different from what Mozilla: listening in to what is sent between the teller and I. They even gave an example of a trip to Spain and recording it as travel. That's going way beyond the performance of a window. The teller is probably already doing that. The window operator has no business listening in on that discussion nor recording even a summary of details of the discussion.

Anti Commercial-AI license

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 5 points 2 weeks ago

The analogy isn't perfect, no analogy ever is.

In this case the content of the search is all that really matters for the quality of the search. What else would you suggest be recorded, the words-per-minute typing speed, the font size? If they want to improve the search system they need to know how it's working, and that involves recording the searches.

It's anonymized and you can opt out. Go ahead and opt out. There'll still be enough telemetry for them to do their work.

[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 weeks ago

Telemetry doesn't need topic categorization. This is building a dataset for AI.

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[-] ID411@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 weeks ago

lol use a fork - I’m sure they’ll have it turned off. Writing a browser engine is non-trivial.

[-] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago

The important part that you should know (and should already be using):

Remember, you can always opt out of sending any technical or usage data to Firefox. Here’s a step-by-step guide on how to adjust your settings.

[-] antler@feddit.rocks 17 points 2 weeks ago

As much as I hate to say it, Firefox is a privacy mess.

Pocket and Fakespot have very bad privacy policies. The Windows version has a unique Mozilla tracker if you download the installer from the website, and the android version has Google Analytics built in. The existing and new telemetry is a but heavy, but it's anonymised so it's really the lesser of the various evils.

My recommendation is LibreWolf & Fennec as alternatives.

[-] PiratePanPan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 2 weeks ago
[-] GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

There are definitely 2 kinds of people commenting this post. The first one who supports telemetry (and Big Tech) and another one that supports freedom and opt-in. This is interesting to see on something like Lemmy. I think the ones who support telemetry are devs and it is a little bit concerning to me

[-] ID411@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

No one supports telemetry. People support Mozilla, because they are the maintainers of the last standard respecting, open source and independent browse engine.

That’s pretty important as Microsoft and Google etc are trying to take possession of the internet for themselves .

[-] BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de 10 points 2 weeks ago

I am a dev and I do not support telemetry

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[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 weeks ago

This isn't even telemetry, it's data collection for AI. That they refused to say that let's you know that they think what they're doing needs to be obfuscated.

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[-] aseriesoftubes@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

Here’s the current list of categories we’re using: animals, arts, autos, business, career, education, fashion, finance, food, government, health, hobbies, home, inconclusive, news, real estate, society, sports, tech and travel.

No pr0n?

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[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 weeks ago

Mozilla wants to be an AI company. This is data collection to support that. Telemetry to understand the user browsing experience doesn't need to be content-categorized.

[-] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 weeks ago

I want an open source AI to sort my tabs and understand them and answer my question about their content. But locally running and offline

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this post was submitted on 14 May 2024
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