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submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
  • In short: Transgender woman Roxanne Tickle is suing social media platform Giggle for Girls after she was excluded from the women-only app.
  • She is alleging unlawful discrimination on the basis of gender identity while the app's founder has denied she is a woman.
  • What's next? The hearing is expected to run for four days.

A transgender woman who was excluded from a women-only social media app should be awarded damages because the app's founder has persistently denied she is a woman, a Sydney court has heard.

In February 2021, Roxanne Tickle downloaded the Giggle for Girls social networking app, which was marketed as a platform exclusively for women to share experiences and speak freely.

Users needed to provide a selfie, which was assessed by artificial intelligence software to determine if they were a woman or man.

Ms Tickle's photograph was determined to be a woman and she used the app's full features until September that year, when the account became restricted because the AI decision was manually overridden.

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[-] Bahalex@lemmy.world 176 points 9 months ago

I have nothing to add, just amused by the fact that a Tickle can’t get a giggle.

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[-] john89@lemmy.ca 108 points 9 months ago

I don't understand.

It's okay to discriminate against men but not transgender women?

[-] prof@infosec.pub 87 points 9 months ago

While I certainly agree with you that discrimination based on sex is unacceptable im most contexts, I believe that gender exclusive spaces, unless they hinder people directly, sometimes are a good thing.

My dad is a mental health professional and founded a weekly 'only-men' self help group. He found that some things they talked about there wouldn't have worked with women involved. That group existed for about 5 years or so and helped quite a few struggling men.

So yeah, unless there's any maliciousness involved, I'd argue that gender exclusiity is not bad in every context.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago

That's a bit different. A little private group is not a for-profit company. The difference between not being invited to a family only event when you aren't family and not being allowed into a restaurant chain because of your race.

[-] prof@infosec.pub 29 points 9 months ago

The group I referenced had a paid membership. Scale that up and make it digital and you may end up with a gender exclusive social media app.

I get what you mean though, but I feel there's a bit more nuance than what you imply.

[-] Taohumor@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

I remember back in high school I had a teacher in an all male classroom because it was a stem field but for kids like an introductory course. A girl showed up in the 2nd year and he sort of joked about how it changes the dynamic cuz now all the guys will need to flex for her so the point of the class was sort of ruined. I remember that class was actually fucking amazing because you would make friends with guys regardless of your social circle or wealth background. Like I talked to multiple demographics and we all treated each other equally and we were all there to learn the trade. It was an amazing experience that I've never found anywhere else, especially not any circle where there were women. Hell even guys who were in that class there were a few if you met them outside the class it was just different. I made some close friends there where we kept spending time together outside the class that I otherwise would not have met but others when they got back to "the rest of the world" that hierarchy set back in and they couldn't bring themselves to talk to you on that level anymore. Women invading male safe spaces under the guise of glass ceilings or whatever was extremely toxic for men, it's as if men started barging into women's bathrooms honestly saying it's a glass ceiling to their right to stare at women in their own private moments. Stupid example but it's all I could come up with.

The point is I would love to find another environment like that and even I wish I looked for more like that as a kid and to have appreciated it for what it was more at the time. Men need to learn to see each other as brothers and not as opposition, that's the only way we get out of this mess is to unionize properly. I think we had it once but we lost it because of this fucking propaganda painting men as inherently predators.

[-] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 34 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

So.... Men act like dicks when there is a woman around or when they are back in "the rest of the world"? At which point their sense of brotherly love and cameraderie disappear? How is that a woman's fault?

How is that the fault of, "fucking propaganda painting men as inherently predators"?

Sounds like a problem with that group of men....

I have tons of male friends who dont "flex" or act like dicks when they are outside of an all-male setting

I'm not against men's clubs, btw.... But the idea that men cant be toxic outside of a men's club is a terrible premise for a men's club

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[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 25 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Women invading male safe spaces under the guise of glass ceilings or whatever was extremely toxic for men, it's as if men started barging into women's bathrooms

So the class wasn't a "men only" class, it just was a class women generally weren't interested in. And a woman deciding she is interested was the same as men barging into women's bathrooms.

Jfc, who are the snowflakes again?

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[-] Plague_Doctor@lemmy.world 45 points 9 months ago
[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago

Real /r/unpopularopinion moment.

I think the thing that the TERFs ultimately miss is that this person was initially welcomed in as a woman and treated as a woman by her peers. She did not disrupt the community or harass any of the participants, until she voiced support for Trans Rights.

It was at this point that a handful of moderators decided to interrogate her on her original gender and use that as an excuse to boot an active and in-good-standing member.

So she wasn't removed for "not being a woman". She was removed for "disagreeing with the political views of the admin".

Anyone familiar with Reddit politics should be able to sympathize.

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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 32 points 9 months ago

More the reverse. If you say "Girls Only" and then exclude a girl, you've violated your own terms of service.

[-] PuddingFeeling907@lemmy.ca 18 points 9 months ago

Your account is a day old so I’m thinking you’re arguing in bad faith and are likely transphobic.

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[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Seems like you do understand it.

But fear not, if you want a website full of only men there are plenty out there.

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[-] Kedly@lemm.ee 64 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

This thread was fated to be a dumpster fire from the instant it was created

Edit: 6 people dont seem to understand what an unholy combination it is to merge: Transphobia, Misandry, AI, and somewhat silly names on the internet

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[-] deft@lemmy.wtf 63 points 9 months ago

Wanna know how I know y'all suck?

Tickle is taking on Giggle for Girls and not one witty joke?

[-] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 46 points 9 months ago

There's low hanging fruit, and then there's the shit on the ground that wild animals eat to get drunk.

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[-] homura1650@lemm.ee 34 points 9 months ago

I'm not familiar with Australian law, but how do you get to "discrimination on the basis of gender identity" in this case. Wouldn't the case for that be a trans man trying to join or stay on the app? (Or a cis man for that matter).

It sounds like Tickle's position is that the app should be discriminating based on gender identity. Her complaint seems more like them discriminating on (vaguely defined policy ammounting to) assigned gender at birth.

Having said that, I suspect their tune will change if a trans man tried joining.

[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 41 points 9 months ago

Having said that, I suspect their tune will change if a trans man tried joining.

Exactly this. I fucking guarantee they wouldn't let a trans man join and actively contribute.

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[-] mdwhite999@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 9 months ago

Discrimination based on gender identity is basically saying I have been treated differently due to being transgender. She is saying that she as a transgender woman is being treated differently to a cisgender woman. Or that is at least how it works in the UK. I would presume Australia is similar

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[-] LillyPip@lemmy.ca 31 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Wait. We’re unironically calling social media for women Giggle and then we’re surprised it might be sexist? April first was like a week ago…

[-] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I think she will win this. They didn't require a genital photo so what's even their proof? Arbitrary requirement anyways. Rules like that only leave people out. I understand the want for a space like that though. I hope this woman finds a space where she can feel safe.

[-] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

I think she'll lose. Because regardless of the issue, a private company can terminate service at any time, for any reason.

It's also been upheld that a graphic artist who wants to design wedding websites can refuse to work with same-sex couples. What this means is, again, a company can pick and choose who to serve.

[-] Cypher@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago

The case in the OP is in Australia. Your story is from the US and has absolutely zero bearing on any likely outcome.

[-] tatterdemalion@programming.dev 18 points 9 months ago

That's a US Supreme Court case. The OP case is in Australia.

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[-] mdwhite999@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 9 months ago

This case is being heard in Sydney, Australia not the US so a case from the US is not relevant in determining the outcome

[-] DillyDaily@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago

I mean, given what's happening with the women's only art exhibit at the MONA right now, this woman definitely has a legal leg to stand on even with this being a private company.

Even if it's just a matter of false advertising (if the app means cis women they should say cis women, not say "women" and then go out of their to exclude an entire group of women) or compensation for being given access then having access removed.

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[-] JCreazy@midwest.social 25 points 9 months ago

A waste of everyone's time. Sounds like entitlement.

[-] honey_im_meat_grinding 73 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

This is funny when you just look at your profile's first page and see you've made comments like these:

I hate this rhetoric. It implies that this a refular occurence. It is just a man hating comment. If this is happening to you frequently, maybe you are the problem. I am tired of being assumed an asshole just because I am a man. It is sexist. Plain and simple.

So you deny "unproblematic" women regularly experiencing unsafe behavior from men who are entitled and you're also denying people's gender identity - otherwise, why would it be a waste of time for a woman's fight for her right to access women's spaces? So you're hateful towards people you perceive to be "men" while complaining about "man haters" elsewhere. Logical inconsistencies in favor of hate is a hallmark sign of right wing extremist views.

[-] JCreazy@midwest.social 10 points 9 months ago

That is some fancy mental gymnastics you came up with there. My comment before has absolutely nothing to do with this article. The fact that you went through my comment history to find a marginal strawman just goes to show you are trying to be argumentative. You can disagree with me all you want, it doesn't mean you're correct. In fact, nobody's opinion can be correct.

[-] xor 15 points 9 months ago

It's not a "strawman" when it's just quoting an actual comment you made - that's called getting called out for your toxic bullshit

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[-] inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

It's entitled to exclude.

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[-] CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

Ms Tickle’s photograph was determined to be a woman and she used the app’s full features until September that year, when the account became restricted because the AI decision was manually overridden.

I'd love to know the story behind the manual overriding.

[-] Silentiea@lemm.ee 19 points 9 months ago

Apparently she defended trans people in a conversation, someone complained, and moderators got involved and manually overrode the ai. Paraphrased hearsay.

[-] butsbutts@lemmy.ml 16 points 9 months ago

you dont have to put on the red light

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[-] supangle@lemmy.wtf 12 points 9 months ago

people actually don't have a job

[-] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 35 points 9 months ago

It sounds like you’re trying to argue nobody should fight discrimination while there are still ditches to dig and toilets to scrub.

[-] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Now make "Guffaw for Guys" lol

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this post was submitted on 09 Apr 2024
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