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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by satxdude@lemm.ee to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

This has happened once before and they reversed it. But they said this last time too:

The discussions that have happened in various threads on Lemmy make it very clear that removing the communites before we announced our intent to remove them is not the level of transparency the community expects, and that as stewards of this community we need to be extremely transparent before we do this again in the future as well as make sure that we get feedback around what the planned changes are, because lemmy.world is yours as much as it is ours.

https://lemmy.world/post/3234363

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[-] ptz@dubvee.org 367 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Lemmy world:

Users, not even on Lemmy World or directly affected by this:

Pissed Pikachu with torch and pitchfork

I'm not in the loop or even involved with LW's admin affairs, but I would imagine there was a letter or email to them or their service provider that prompted that and likely named those communities specifically. Going out on a limb, I would guess the community removal was a timely response to something like that, and based on LW's history, an announcement will probably be coming soon-ish.

Before you grab your torches and pitchforks, remember: Pretty much every Lemmy instance is run by volunteers that don't have legal departments.

[-] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 135 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"The cloud is just other people's computers" - It's inconvenient, but those computers are real, physical objects subject to oversight from real, physical law enforcement.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 24 points 1 year ago

"but it's not my computer, so you should be willing to host any of it"

[-] rglullis@communick.news 60 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Evidence No. 3783 that "social media" and "privacy" do not mix well together.

Let me repeat one more time:

  • anything you write online should be considered public.
  • There is no "consent-based" fediverse.
  • There is no "GDPR protects me from that".
  • There is no "security through obscurity".
  • There is no "dark corner of the internet".

No matter your morals and ethical values, If you need to have any type of conversation that you think might get you in legal trouble, do not have this conversation in a public forum. Use #matrix if you have to, and even then you'd still need to worry large group chats which may have some undercover agent.

And if you are really concerned about "censorship", then ActivityPub is not for you. Go join forces with the bitcoiners and use #nostr.

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[-] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah like.

This isn't reddit dot com opaquely purging your favourite subreddit for some unspecific corporate reason.

The admins stated quite clearly why they are blocking it ("we don't want trouble, and our TOS lay out that we'll defed from illegal shit for our own safety"), and it is their instance. And unlike Reddit -- The community is still THERE in its home server. It has not been burninated. -- You can just. Make an account elsewhere. It's free. It takes less than 5 minutes. You can even KEEP your LW account for other communities.

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[-] GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is precisely it.
One other point is, some instance want to focus on certain things, and take the risks, where others don't.
Our community feddit.uk doesn't do nsfw, because it's not worth the headache for what our main focus is.
The guy running lemmynsfw on the other hand, is enthusiastically embracing the challenges involved, and more power to him!

And in the end, it works. We handle Mr. Brains Pork Balls, they can handle...other balls.

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[-] antidote101@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Are you telling me Reddit is free to have a Piracy sub, but Lemmy isn't?

What's the point of Lemmy if Reddit is more free?

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 46 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Reddit is an American company, subject to American laws, that has a legal department (i.e. has lawyers on retainer). Lemmy World, like most other instances, is run by volunteers and donations and is subject to the laws where it's hosted and/or where its operators reside.

When you receive a takedown / DMCA / whatever legal mumbo-jumbo applies to your jurisdiction, you have two choices:

  • Comply immediately
  • Fight it in court

The first option is free. The second option costs a lot of money if you don't already have lawyers on retainer and can cost even more money if the court rules against you.

Sucks, but that's the way it is.

Again, I'm only speculating that was the case here. However, given Germany is one of the jurisdictions LW is accountable to, it's not that wild of a guess.

In most EU nations, piracy is usually not even a blip on the radar for security forces and internet providers. Things seem to work completely differently in Germany, where breaking copyright law can carry a sentence of up to three years in jail, alongside a large fine and trial costs. - Source


What's the point of Lemmy if Reddit is more free?

That's such a broad question that I'm not even going to bother. Instead, I'll answer with the same question as when "states' rights" are brought up:

"~~States' rights~~ Free to do what, exactly?"

You're also free to run your own instance and accept all the legal liabilities that come with that.

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[-] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 43 points 1 year ago

You seem to be confusing Lemmy.world with Lemmy as a whole. Lemmy is free to be used for anything by anyone.

Lemmy.world is the largest and most mainstream Lemmy server, so they need to be especially careful about legal issues. If lemmy.world gets taken down due to mirroring content hosted on lemmy.dbzer0.com, the whole network would partially collapse because of how many users and communities are hosted on lemmy.world.

It's not even close to worth the risk. This is how federation is supposed to work.

[-] tryptaminev@feddit.de 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Isnt the federations key idea to avoid collapse if any single instance it failing? This sounds like the system has become too centralized around lemmy.world

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[-] bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social 19 points 1 year ago

the dbzer0 piracy community has been around much longer than most of the users here. they spun up when they saw the writing on the wall, and they permit things that would not be permitted on reddit. and, it seems, they permit things that are not permitted on .world.

but the instance is still there. the community is still there.

and you can leave .world, join an instance that hasn't banned !piracy, and keep right on going.

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[-] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 115 points 1 year ago

Great thing about the fediverse is that you have options when admin/moderation actions occur that you don’t agree with. If Reddit were to remove /r/piracy then we’d have no recourse

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[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 113 points 1 year ago

ITT: People who think lemmy.world is equal to Lemmy.

Go join another instance folks.

[-] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 year ago

Yep, this is why I have multiple Lemmy accounts. That's even one of the biggest strengths of Lemmy.

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[-] ExcursionInversion@lemmy.world 101 points 1 year ago

Stop crying about it and just join a new instance, pretty simple.

[-] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah that. And I say it as someone who, on a good day, will go on philosophical rambles about how piracy is in fact the moral thing to do.

Do people just not get that this is the entire point of a decentralized system?

Hop accounts, you lil' bitch. Don't sit in one server complaining about the owner of that server when you have a billion options.

And if your priority is the piracy community? Make the server that hosts that your homeserver.

Or just have more than one account and use an app instead of the default webpage.

It's not rocket science. People's brains are poisoned by centralization. Back in my day everything was its own separate forum with its own separate account and to be honest, it was miles better like that.

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[-] Lemonparty@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago

Reddit syndrome still affects a lot of users here, who view having multiple accounts on different answers as an inconvenience instead of a feature of the platform design. The irony is that tons of users on Reddit had lots of accounts without batting an eye, but that extra step of having to lick a new instance is just SO complicated.

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[-] halm@leminal.space 82 points 1 year ago

This is why you don't sign up with the biggest possible instances, eventually they will become the biggest possible bottleneck in a network. Anything dot world admins do will affect all of their users, that shouldn't be surprising 🤷

As for dbzer0, this might affect users in the short term but eventually people will figure out how to access the sub from more friendly instances.

[-] DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 62 points 1 year ago

That's why I moved!

[-] tobogganablaze@lemmus.org 55 points 1 year ago
[-] PiratePanPan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 51 points 1 year ago

What a bunch of fucking clowns.

Anyways.... !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com

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[-] Shotgun_Alice@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago

Did they really do it again, fucking hell. I came here for a better experience then Reddit and I feel like it’s starting to be a worse experience then Reddit. Transparency from admin my ass.

[-] glimse@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago

...if your metric is admin transparency, how the hell do you figure that Lemmy is worse than Reddit...?

I feel like Lemmy falls short in a lot of ways but transparency is not one of them

[-] Blaze@dormi.zone 33 points 1 year ago

Feel free to join any other instance from that list: https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances?tab=readme-ov-file

You can export and import your settings (including subscriptions and block lists) in two clicks from your account settings.

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[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 29 points 1 year ago

Transparency is there in the sense that the modlog makes clear that a lemmy.world admin blocked the community. If it were Reddit we'd never know how, just that it is blocked.

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[-] lorty@lemmy.ml 44 points 1 year ago

When "reddit outside of reddit" does reddit things 🫨

[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago

To be fair, Rudd is just a hobbyist who runs .world in his spare time. If he’s getting legal pressure, he’s probably going to cover his ass. He’s not a company with a legal dept. He’s a guy with a family and a day job.

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[-] daniskarma@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

Sad that antipiracy laws are in place.

But understandable that lemmy.world protect themselves against those unfair laws.

The sailing will continue, but, as always, we should be wary of the "navy" and sail with precaution.

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[-] PoliticallyIncorrect@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago

Can confirm, moved out of lemmy.world by this bullshit.

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[-] NutWrench@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

The pirates will simply move to another Lemmy Instance and re-create the group there. This is the advantage of having a decentralized platform: so one person or small group of people can't ruin things for the rest of us.

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[-] Iapar@feddit.de 21 points 1 year ago

Spin up a piracy instance on a server in China or Russia and be done with it.

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[-] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

PSA: Lemmy.ml has a piracy community and federates with everyone world federates with so you can have the same experience.

[-] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 41 points 1 year ago

Lemmy.ml is also one of the worst offenders spreading authoritarian propaganda for the CCP and Kremlin. I hate Lemmy.ml

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[-] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 20 points 1 year ago

and federates with everyone world federates with

Not entirely true, I discovered the other day, while helping someone figure out why they couldn't access .ml communities, that .ml blocks furry instances...

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[-] DABDA@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

EDIT: dbzer0 had nothing to do with this ban, it was done by a Lemmy.World admin.

~~I updated my post after another user stated that it wasn't lemmy.world admins that performed the ban but the db0 team that did. I can't say with certainty that's actually the case since the modlog is pretty opaque and I don't have full knowledge of how [federated] actions are propagated & displayed.~~

~~I (incorrectly?) assumed since those communities had existed for so long on the dbzer0 instance they had at least tacit approval from the admins there and were in communication with them enough that a full ban wouldn't occur -- when I saw the removal in the modlog I didn't even consider that possibility.~~

~~Sorry for kicking up drama here if the Lemmy.World team had no part in this :(~~

[-] Danterious@lemmy.dbzer0.com 33 points 1 year ago

When you check the mod logs and filter by mod you can see that it came from Mr. Kaplan which is a lemmy.world admin.

So yes it was a lemmy.world decision. The question is whether or not this admin was a lone actor.

[-] Blaze@dormi.zone 25 points 1 year ago

Here is the modlog: https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModRemoveCommunity

Seems to have been made by a mod from LW indeed

[-] grue@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

Sigh... if "indirectly linking" is prohibited then literally the entire web breaks.

[-] RandomStickman@kbin.run 20 points 1 year ago

Does removing mean defederate?

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this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2024
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