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this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
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So? They are not forcing anyone to join. Unlike certain other countries
The coup in 2014 was carried out by force.
Lmfao stfu Tankie.
It's a "coup" when I dislike it, and a glorious revolution when I do. /s
That's why the west calls it the "revolution of dignity" lol. Do you have any sense of self-awareness? Such dignity having the CIA up your ass to make your country more west-friendly.
Is what Ukrainians called it after countless of them were murdered by police in the streets and they successfully ran their Pro-Putin dictator out of the country. Seethe harder fascist.
The people of Iraq also welcomed the US as liberators.
Whataboutism
Not my fault you failed to understand the simple point that "the people" aren't a monolith and that narratives about what "the people" want aren't necessarily true. If, say, January 6th was a success, Trump and the rest of the fascists would be claiming that the storming of the capital was an expression of "the will of the people" to run the "democrat dictators out of office".
I'm perfectly aware of that, which is why you have to look at material conditions.
Oh look, Ukraine threw out the government that was literally shooting protestors, and Ukraine is no longer a Pro-Putin authoritarian state.
If a similar coup were to happen to Zelenskyy, do you think protestors would not be shot? Regardless, we'll see how long being a pro-west authoritarian state works. The west likes to pump and dump their supposed allies.
If you paid attention to Ukrainian politics any beyond the war you would know that protests in Ukraine have continued throughout the entirety of the war., that Union's and other NGO's that don't cooperate with Russia still function unhindered by the government, and that all non-Russian sponsored opposition parties still function legally.
But please tell me how that compares to Russia where all opposition to the government has been crushed, and where it's literally illegal to be gay publicly.
Shocking, protests and organizations that don't threaten the current power structure don't get violently cracked down. Just so you know, this isn't a thing specific to Ukrainian politics.
That's a really funny way of saying, "Don't work with and aid the country literally invading in a war of national survival"
So going back to my original question:
If a massive amount of people wanted the government to change policy? I already answered that.
Or went the extra step of wanting Zelensky to step down?
He would most likely do so, however it's unlikely that'll happen, unless Ukrainians decided they wanted the government to fight even harder, the only politician that polls better than Zelensky in Ukraine is a very pro-war general.
The first link is people protesting that they want the government to do more of what Zelenskyy wants to do. Do you think he doesn't want to spend more on the war? As for the second link, Zelenskyy is extending his term as president through emergency war powers. None of what you posted answered the question. If there was an actual coup attempt on Zelenskyy, protestors would absolutely be shot at. Bloodless coups are the exception, not the rule.
I mean, have you ever been there? I have, it was incredibly corrupt, and this was AFTER 2014. it's not so unbelievable that people tried to enact a change...
The CIA paid a million people to stand out in the could for months on end? Whoa, where do they keep all these actors?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
I'm not doing your work for you tankie. Quote the part of the article that supports your thesis.
You all do this same thing, throw a book at someone and when they refuse to bow to your demand to waste their time you declare victory.
Arguments against the Orange Revolution being a coup:
The protests were sparked by widespread allegations of election fraud and corruption, which were supported by international observers and the Ukrainian opposition.
The protests were largely peaceful, with only a few instances of violence and property damage.
The Supreme Court of Ukraine annulled the election results, citing irregularities and fraud, and ordered a revote.
The new president, Viktor Yushchenko, was elected through a fair and transparent process, with international observers monitoring the election.
While there are valid arguments on both sides, the majority of evidence suggests that the Orange Revolution was a popular uprising rather than a coup. The protests were sparked by widespread discontent with the election results and the government’s handling of the election, and were largely driven by Ukrainian citizens rather than foreign powers. The Supreme Court’s decision to annul the election results was based on allegations of fraud and irregularities, and the subsequent election was monitored by international observers. Ultimately, the Orange Revolution was a significant event in Ukrainian history that led to the country’s transition towards democracy and closer ties with the West.
TL;DR Russia is poor af and everyone but American middle class settler tankies who live comfortably in the US want blue jeans and VW Jettas and not to suffer under the gangster oligopoly of Russia's petro state.
Tankies keep pretending that this isn't true because the US intelligence agencies opportunistically tipped the the unrest in Ukraine in their favor, just like Putin has done in ever country that is in his sphere.
Fun fact: Putin, the man that tankies slavishly uphold as a stalwart of US imperialism was himself installed into power by the CIA to keep Soviet candidates from taking back power through democratic election held after the first term of Boris Yeltsin was about to be ended, which he was almost assuredly going to lose.
Tankies continue to be played like a Switch by western intelligence and it will ultimately lead to Russia's demise. All their accusations of everyone being western stooges is PURE F***ING PROJECTION
Sir, you asked for a quote from the article.
Then you have nothing to worry about 👍
First you intentionally make the dumbest interpretation of how a situation can occur, then when I post an article that shows exactly how something like this goes down, you call me a name, refuse to read, and revel in your ignorance. A simple article is not a book. Operations to subvert politics in a country take many years, even decades, and the article talks about US operations to interfere in the politics of Ukraine. Do you think you can make the connection between that and what happened around a decade after that article was written or is this too difficult for you?
No you threw a link at me and expecting me to strain out whatever point you were trying to make. And you still won't do the simple act of concisely presenting whatever you think proves you right. Instead you caterwaul for two paragraphs worth of text.
It's probably because you're trying to walk me to your point of view and the article really doesn't contain the definitive proof you think it does.
All you ML propaganda tactics are predicated on deception which you justify by saying it's for the revolution.
Your praxis does not work in the information age where anyone can fact check your biased premise.
And yes I'm well aware that western governments foment decent artificially. That doesn't prove anything about the euromadien protests. We all know if there were some ML uprising you would not accept the idea that it was BS because western govs do velvet revolutions. Before you say that doesn't happen Lenin him fucking self was smuggled out of Europe by Anglo bourgeoisie to overthrow the Czar.
In the time it took you to write that nonsense whiny post, you could've just read the article. I explained it to you anyway, in a post shorter than the one you typed, but you melted down anyway.
Even if thats true (spoiler, it isnt) there have been plenty of free, internationally recognized (not just by the west), elections since them.
Should anyone start invading when their feelings are getting hurt now?
Sure, invade the US. Ukrain has nothing to do with it.
Disengage from Ukraine and stop invading countries.
Well, generally, Russia can go fuck itself.
They should feel that they lost the cold war and their kleptocracy isn't conductive to expanding their already reduced sphere of influence, so they better make peace with the fact.
'cause they can. There's no good guys in international politics, you can check out an history book to confirm that.
you clearly aren't grokking what I'm trying to communicate
I don't see how it's necessary to explain what is there for everyone to see: they got Ukrainians fighting for them (well, and themselves as well), then if that's not enough, the closest NATO countries will probably get into it.
Change your government then, I'm already overseas, relative to you (unless you're posting from Moscow).
Nobody forced Russia to invade. You're saying NATO expansion forced their hand, why? Just because they'd lose their vassal and they didn't want to. Life in Ukraine SUCKED, that's why Euromaidan happened; was it pushed by US agencies as well? Maybe, but still it wouldn't have happened if not for the massive corruption there, much of which was upheld by Russia, see their support for Yanukovych.
Ukraine wasn't entering NATO, it was seeking close ties to the EU.
And anyway it's a sovereign country, it can do whatever the hell it wants, they're not slaves to Russia.
Proves nothing. Russia itself at one point pretended to want to join NATO, it's all politicking. And it's still pointless, a sovereign country is free to do what it wants, if it isn't, then it's not free and it has all the reason to fight for its freedom.
The US is practically never the good guy, but Russia is even worse, in this instance they're absolutely indefensible.
By minding their own business? Why would they care?