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this post was submitted on 05 May 2024
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Asklemmy
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You're allowed to be atheist of course, but do you have any more proof that there are no gods than they have that gods exist?
EDIT: Y'all can have your opinion, no one's questioning that. You're allowed to believe there are no higher powers, but I'm not allowed my personal belief that there is?? Not one person has provided proof that there is no Higher Power. Grow up....
I'm not against religion, but that's not how evidence and proof works. Do you have any proof that tiny invisible pink elephants aren't hiding in your fridge?
Proof of a negative is common in science and mathematics.
Edit: For those who are downvoting here are some sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)#Proving_a_negative
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_impossibility
No, you can't prove that something never happens or that something doesn't exist. You can sometimes prove something that contradicts the existence of something, but that's not proving that the thing itself doesn't exist, because it's epistemologically not possible
Science, philosophy, and mathematics say otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)#Proving_a_negative
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_impossibility
Then why did you dodge the request to prove there are no tiny invisible pink elephants in your fridge, wise guy? lmao
That's not really how it works though. If I tell you there's an invisible dragon living under your bed who will burn your house down at some time in the future if you don't give me $10. You can't disprove it, but because I'm the one making the claim that the dragon exists the burden of proof is on me.
You should familiarize yourself with the concept called Burden of Proof. They (those who believe in God, and claim he exists and created all things, etc) are the ones where the burden lies. It is not for the rest of us to prove their beliefs for them, or you.
The default position is that we don't know if a specified thing exists. To prove or disprove it, you need evidence. I can prove that the Christian God doesn't exist, as it is logically impossible, but it's possible that some other version of a god might exist, I don't know. I don't have evidence either way.
How can you prove the Christian God doesn't exist?
It's logically impossible, it has contradictory aspects.
Yes, you said that, but what exactly?
For example, omnipotence is a self-contradictory term, as you have a dilemma - if a being is all powerful enough to give itself limits, it is not omnipotent as it wouldn't be able to do the things it limited itself to do. Whereas if it can't self-impose limits, it's also not omnipotent as it isn't able to self-impose limits. Another example is that suffering exists in the world, which would be a contradiction if an all-powerful being that wanted to end suffering existed, since it should, but it isn't.
And these are just contradictions within God's character. If you want to look at the things he actually claims to have done, you'll find numerous more in the Bible. Just as one example, Jesus's last words are different in almost every gospel.
None of this is new or hasn't been thought about, written about and deflated for centuries. I doubt you have any theologians shaking in their boots.
The meaning of omnipotence as it translates to Good has always been nuanced. There have always been things God can't do - sin being the obvious example. You could debate whether he can, but just never would because of his character, but it amounts to the same thing and has been orthodoxy for centuries.
The apparent contradictions on the Gospels (especially synoptic) have been done to death. Debated and answered more times than you've had hot dinners. There is no serious theologian or biblical scholar who would hear that argument and be at all concerned by it.
Honestly the same applies to the idea of a good god and suffering.
Just because people think they've put forward an excuse doesn't mean it's a good excuse. None I've heard have convinced me yet.
And that's fair enough. Claiming you can definitively disprove the existence of the Christian God and having some objections that you haven't heard a convincing response to aren't the same thing though...
It's impossible to prove the non-existence of something. It's on those who believe in god to prove its existence.
And the Bible doesn't count as sufficient evidence because that would be like believing Harry Potter exists because JK Rowling says so.
Unless you claim, as OP did, that you can actually disprove it.
I agree that the Bible is not sufficient in the sense that it proves anything or sews up their arguments, but to suggest its historical value as evidence is the same as modern day fiction is absurd.
Careful, many online atheists don't understand that they have to prove a negative. That they have to prove the assertion: "There is no god."
The default position is that there is yet insufficient evidence to draw a conclusion.
Edit: Thank you for the downvotes, you have provided me with further evidence that online atheists don't understand that they have to prove a negative. Your butthurt fuels me.
This guy eats babies
prove me wrong
You have made the assertion, thus you have the burden of proof.
"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" QED
...Do you not realize that the same goes for god?
I wasn't arguing for the existence of god.
Let me break this down:
The second one is wrong, there is no god is not a claim that requires evidence in the same way there are no fairies in my fridge doesn't require evidence
Negative claims require evidence.
Otherwise a safety engineer can go to a regulator and say "There are no structural issues with this building." He is claiming there are no issues, he needs to back that up with evidence.
Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me. 😜
That's making a positive claim about a negative outcome. "There is enough evidence to be confident there aren't structural problems" is what they're really saying.
This doesn't work for god because there's nothing to check, there's never been any evidence for god, but there's been plenty of evidence for structural issues existing.
Bro, the graphite is not there. Everything is completely normal.
Let’s start with clarifying an element of the question:
Which characteristics define a god? Do these characteristics violate the laws of physics and/or internal logic? If these characteristics do not violate the laws of physics, then what aspects distinguish a god from a mundane or natural entity?
"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"
Because that's not the atheist position. You're wrestling with a claim nobody is making.
Atheism doesn't claim there is no "Higher Power", it's just a disbelief in theistic claims.