this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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It's the same argument behind stimulus checks tbh. You give people money so that they can spend it on necessities and that money goes right back into the economy. Since our economy is based on growth and spending, more people spending money overall helps the economy, not hurts it. In addition, you're spending less money on solving societal issues. Well fed sheltered people cause less problems.
This is different though. If my rent is $2000 a month now, and I get $1000 a month from the government, the landlord can make my rent $3000 a month on renewal. Yes the money is going into the economy but it is enriching the upper class instead of helping the folks that need it.
And you're still gaining services you didn't have before. People who couldn't afford a dentist, for example, now can. You need a whole different set of laws to tackle wealth inequality. We can do both.
No, you're not. In the example they just provided, nothing has fundamentally changed because the money you were given was eaten up by price increases, leaving you exactly where you were before.
Because UBI isn't like a stimulus check. Stimulus checks are temporary. With UBI, every single buisness, creditor, and landlord knows for a fact everyone's monthly income just went up across the board, so they know they can safely raise prices without pricing out customers.
That's the fundamental problem with UBI: it only works if it's coupled with strong price controls and regulations to prevent price gouging, and can be rapidly adjusted if necessary. Prices can go up overnight, pay raises can be acquired over a pay period, but the UBI payout will not be as flexible.
Look how impossible it was to get the minimum wage raised from $8.
Here in the US, minimum wage is still just $7.25. I don't think they are going to do anything about it anytime soon. We have a hard enough time rallying people to slow rise of authoritarianism
Minimum wage is $15 in my state, so wtf are you talking about?
Landlords pay taxes on their property. Pay utilities. They dont have "every need met" or they wouldn't need to charge rent in the first place.
You're just arguing that the system is too broken fix. Which is even more reason why we should instead of shoving our heads in the sand.
But nah, too haaaaaard. Grrrr. Bad people will keep being bad so no point doing good. Grrrr.
Fucking loser.
Not the same, IMO. Stimulus checks are not for everyone, there are rules, which means that they can't raise prices universally, because not everyone is getting the money.
I could be wrong but I thought this was also how UBI would be implemented? It would just be a safety net for those without employment?
Edit: I just googled it and I am indeed wrong. What I was thinking of is called a guaranteed minimum income. That makes a bit more sense to me than a UBI, but if it wasn't apparent I'm obviously not well read on the topics.
May I advise you to stop calling people daft and then simplifying a complex issue? Or perhaps don't call other discussers daft at all?
Anyway, the difference is in execution: when only a portion gets the money, corporates can't take the whole stimulus from you, because not everyone has the same amount of money.
When everyone gets a stimulus, it's basically free money for corporations. If everyone gets $1000, you can get corporations will find a way to raise their prices by $1000 over a short period of time.
The idea behind this only works IF more people are spending. If Rent jumps that money goes to the landlord, who may (but probably won't) spend the extra money, and it doesn't benefit everyone.
I forget the term, but there's an idea that talks about how many people/businesses touch money. So if you create a dollar into an economy (you can't create money with out causing problems but let's pretend it's magic) if that money goes into a person's bank it's probably a bad thing. If that money goes through 10 people's hands, you're getting taxation on it in every place which is a good thing (for the government). Problem is landlords are usually well off (at least well enough to own more than one property). They might not be "mega rich" but they almost certainly will save that money, rather than spend it.
Besides which stimulus checks are a one time payment... not exactly the same as UBI.
If people aren't living lay heck to paycheck, afraid of where the next meal comes from, they spend more. You forget that this money will first go to the most needing first. Yes their landlord will pocket some of that. But they will have a reliable place to sleep. They will go out and buy food. Their landlord will pay utilities and taxes.... It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than denying those who need it the necessities because "well some people might profit down the line". Then fix the rental laws. Fix labor laws. It's not a complete solution, but at least it's something in the right direction.
And way to miss the point of the analogy by latching on to one trivial difference. "It's a one time payment" doesn't change what kind of payment it is and why it's given. It's still free money. If you're gonna be that pedantic, I think your meant to be on Reddit still.
You're not solving the problem of the UBI being eaten up by what they already have to pay for as everything just gets a bit more pricy.
You have this VERY strange idea of what a landlord is. A landlord's needs are already met, that's why he has multiple properties.
... and it's not a trivial difference. A Stimulus check is NOT UBI, it's limited in who gets it, and it's a one time payment, so it's quickly spent whether on needs or wants, and then it's gone. UBI is a ongoing payment meaning that the market will adjust to the new money everyone has every month. So you can't compare the two. well you can but you just look foolish... which you're doubling down on.
It's not pedantic to point out that one time payments and continual payments change everything in different ways, but absolutely change the market in different ways... If you think that you might need to go back to school and get a basic economics class.