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this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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Reminds me of a joke: A guy walks down the street and mumbles to himself angrily: You cook every fucking day but no one ever calls you a cook. You fix your car all the time but people never call you a mechanic. You have a small garden and grow your own food but when people see you they don't say "Hey, farmer!". But you rape someone one single time...
But seriously, for the same reason you don't ban drunk drivers from driving for life or shoplifter from shopping. People have to function in society somehow, even if they did terrible things in the past.
No they don't, that's what prisons are for.
That kinda mentality is why america has the most people in prison per capita. Its the only way to rationalize the way the prisoners are essentially being enslaved. So by being commercially productive, people with money (read: with power) will always work to increase the number of prisoners.
I am fine with rehabilitating drug dealers or other non violent crimes and even some violent ones. Rapists should never see the light of day again. There's no excuse for rape. There's no "Oh, I didn't know raping someone was a bad thing" to rehabilitate someone out of. To rape someone you have to be a selfish, shitty person, end of story. We don't need people like that in society. The resources spent trying to fix them would be better focused on people who need help and have never raped anyone.
Just out of curiosity, what other violent crimes do get a pass for "not knowing it was wrong?"
Like do you believe that people can assault other people with weapons without knowing it was wrong? Can they beat their wives and not know it was wrong?
You seem to have a weird hangup on rape in particular in comparison to other violent crimes when it comes to "knowing it was wrong."
I'm pretty sure the MS13 guys that butcher people know it's wrong they just don't give a shit. I'm sure people who use physical violence to get what they want know it's wrong but they just don't care.
Stupid standard, people can rationalize any crime rape ain't special.
I said some violent crimes.
If someone assaults somebody in retaliation for something they did to them or a family member where it's unlikely they would harm anyone else many would argue that can be justified.
No we're all taught from preschool on not to hit.
And they should be locked up forever with the rapists.
Then when someone assaults the assaulter in retaliation for the retaliation? Fuck the rule of law - return to lynch mobs, amirite? Do you say people argue this because you're one of them and are too much of a coward to say so, or is this an irrelevancy you don't believe? People argue all sorts of dumb bullshit - it doesn't make them right.
No exceptions, no discussion entered into - guess we're locking up the military and police. Of course there are exceptions, and of course people are going to do the mental gymnastics necessary to justify their actions to themselves. That doesn't make them right, but it does make your standard a transparently terrible one.
They do, and that doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished, what it does mean is you can look at their reasons when determining whether or not they are likely to re-offend. The person who only kills people who rape their kid is not likely to do it again vs. the person who's threshold for rape is that they don't respect other people's body autonomy when they're horny.
How about instead of dodging their points, you really think about what they're saying?
You do know one of the points of prison, besides retribution is rehabilitation, just prisoning someone does not constitute a healthy society.
I see you have no idea what you're talking about
K
Prisons are supposed to be for rehabilitation. What you are talking about is penal colonies. If we had a working justice system, those who can't be rehabilitated could get the death penalty. But right now it is cheaper to keep them in prison for life than fix the system. Since this guy is out, he served his sentence and is deemed rehabilitated.
Idgaf what the "justice" system says. I'm giving my opinion of how it should be. I know of child molesters in my home town who were out in 6 years and continued to be pieces of shit. The kids they raped sure as fuck weren't over the damage they did in that time. A guy raped a member of my family and didn't get any time at all. Rehabilitation does not work on rapists. The fact that there is a maximum sentence just goes to show that they don't get out when they're rehabilitated. They get out when their time is up.
The current system doesn't even attempt to rehabilitate people. That's the big problem. The current system just doesn't work.
Correct. So it's better to throw away the key than let monsters back on the streets.
"The system doesn't work. Instead of fixing it, let's just ruin people's lives forever. Nevermind the fact that people can change."
I didn't say don't fix it. I said don't let them back out when nothing was done to rehabilitate them.
"Nothing was done to rehabilitate them, so rehabilitation doesn't work."
There's literally no logic here...
If nothing was done to rehabilitate them, then they are not rehabilitated. How does that not track?
It doesn't track when the argument is that they should be rehabilitated rather than just locked away.
I never said they shouldn't be, assuming they can be. What I said was if they are not, don't let them out. Currently there is very little rehabilitation going on and those who are released are still a danger. This is not a good thing. If you don't fix the rehabilitation problem first all you get are repeat offenders. Releasing un-rehabilitated criminals < locking them up forever < rehabilitation.
It doesn't matter if people can change, it's not up to a victim to suffer the presence of their abuser to satisfy an abuser's interests. Ever.
Your garbage ass rhetoric is the exact same chief enablers use to justify choosing their abusers over the rest of their families, and they destroy their households as a result.
This is why we clearly need to cut people like you out of society as well. You don't belong here either.
No u
You should take this as personally as possible: you are a deeply unserious person who is not worth engaging with
And the shocking percentage of innocent people who are forced into bad plea deals or railroaded by the system? Do we throw away the key for them too?
Those people are why I didn't say we should execute them. They can still prove their innocence and get out.
The system doesn't work, we should just throw away the key, and somehow the innocent will prove they are so from behind the gates we locked forever?
That's not logical.
One the system gets ahold of you, it's almost impossible to escape it regardless of your innocence.
There's a maximum sentence for drug dealers too. Is it impossible to realize the harm that brought to the community?
No? That's why they're in prison. I don't think maximum sentences work. You should be in prison until you're fixed and ready to not be a criminal when to you get out. I'd hardly compare a drug dealer to a rapist though. A drug dealer can be driven into it by a poor financial situation and the people using drugs are doing so by choice. Rapists don't have any external factors that drive them to it.
I'm sorry but your logic clearly doesn't track here. If maximum sentences are proof that there is no rehabilitation then why wouldn't that be true of drug dealers too?
I never said it was. You're the one who brought up drug dealers anyway. I said maximum sentences aren't a good way to do sentencing. The sentence should be "until you are rehabilitated", regardless of your crime.
Okay that's a bit more clear. The drug dealers thing was a comparison. Now we need to deal with the idea of the indefinite sentence. There's a real danger that a regulatory agency could just keep increasing that bar until it's a defacto life sentence. That's why we have maximums.
I'd love to live in a country I trusted with that kind of power but I don't. We constantly advise our justice system and the people trapped in it. So I have no confidence an indefinite sentence would result in a release or good faith treatment while incarcerated to work towards a release.
The current justice system already has issues with corruption. It's just one more problem that needs to be solved in the overall revamp the system needs with how things are done. Just arbitrarily releasing people after a set amount of time is not how you fix that issue.
It absolutely is. Because that way the corruption can't just turn everything into a life sentence in a sweat shop.
Disgusting sentiment.
Lol leave it to a Lemmy troglodyte to balk at the notion that they should be imprisoned for doing horrific shit to other people.
I bet if the rape victim fought back or shot him, you'd tell her off while you're throwing her in prison though.
Your sexism is showing and it is gross, warty and about 2.5 inches
I'm the troglodyte, sure. The one who DOESN'T want people imprisoned forever. You making a lot of assumptions based on the two words I said. Troll harder.
Yes, you ARE the troglodyte BECAUSE you don't want to protect other people by imprisoning rapists for life, serious and extreme criminals who need to be kept away from society permanently.
You are a backwards-ass sexist who belongs in the 20th century. You'd get along well with Brett Kavanaugh, Bill Cosby and all of their ilk.