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New gender gap
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
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This data is the World world, not just "America world".
Also, if men are going right, then the left needs to step up their offering.
"When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
While this is true, it's also true that pendulum swings can go further in the opposite direction than equality.
While a trite example, in the recent Barbie film, at the end when things are going back to the seemingly good way, the men in Barbieland ask if they can have a seat on the supreme court and are told no, which is then explained as Barbieland being a mirror to the real world such that as there's increased equality in the real world then equality for men in the mirror would increase.
Apparently the writers weren't familiar with the fact there's four women on the supreme court right now and a woman has been on the court since 1981 (around twice as close to the creation of Barbie than to the present day).
Even in the context of its justifiably imbalanced equality it failed to be proportionally imbalanced.
There's interesting research around how the privileged underestimate the degree to which the good things that happen to them are because of privilege, but that at the same time the underprivileged overestimate how often the bad things which happen are because of bias. In theory both are ego-preserving adaptations. But it also means that either side is going to have a difficult time correctly identifying equality from their relative subjective perspectives.
You mean self aware, hyperbolic satire?
They know there have been women on the supreme court. It was a reference to second wave feminism, and inverted because that was the joke.
While you are welcome to your take, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and here's the writer/director responding to that very scene:
It was a film about plastic dolls from a corporation trying to seem less like a big bad corporation. If you're using the Barbie movie as evidence in an actual philosophical debate around other human beings having equal rights, you have bigger problems in life.
Philosophy is all about finding meaning in common life, why shouldn't we use the barbie movie?
Because pop culture corporate feminism isn't actual meaningful feminism, it is an entirely different beast the serves to reinforce the patriarchy.
How does it do that?
By claiming to reject hierarchical sexism while reinforcing the structure of oppositional sexism.
Do you like having rights? Probably. Would other people like the same rights? Absolutely. Do people who want rights deserve your ire because of a movie? Fuck no.
I wasn't commenting on the conclusions, only the source of the analogy.
Correct. Why would anyone go for a worse option for themselves?
Edit: A benefit to one group does not mean a detriment to others. This is not a zero sum game.
The funny thing is that the left could offer so many things for men:
All of which are mostly men issues.
Is it really worse? Or does it just hurt your feels when women can decide something on their own?
Why not both? Benefit to women, and benefit to men.
This isn't a zero sum game.
You're not wrong, but the wage gap? Not going to close if we give everyone a raise. It would be the same wage gap.
I'm pretty sure that by this point most reasonable people have realized that the wage gap is a myth, so that's probably not your best example.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/pew-research
A study and a bias check on the source from the study. Happy?
The wage gap exists because women have reasonable expectations for work-life balance (one reason). Men are culturally expected to rise and grind.
This isn't the win that wage gap enthusiasts think it is. It's essentially saying:
Still missing the point. Giving everyone more doesn't fix inequality.
Giving those with less the means to exist doesn't make what you have lesser.
The point you've made here seems to be, corporations are bad, everyone is exploited now, and if anyone wants to make money you have to give up your life to do so.
Also, the part of the paper you've cherry picked suits your narrative but doesn't paint the entire picture.
Not really, since that's just the same ill-defined "Earnings Gap" nonsense constantly peddled as a "wage gap" for decades. As this article from Forbes and the sources inside explain, and has been well-known for a decade at this point, "When comparing two people in the same profession, with the same seniority, working the same number of hours, and so forth, women earn $0.98 for every dollar that a man earns."
Their source for that number has since updated that number to $0.99 for every dollar a man earns for the same work.
So, unless you think that women should be paid significantly more than men for the same work (which wouldn't surprise me, given your other comments in this thread), Rejoice! for the "wage gap" is no more!
The gender pay gap is insignificant and inconsequential compared to the income differences between working and owning classes. Also, much of the pay gap is due to men culturally tending to not have the option of escaping the grindset. "Honey I'm going to quit my job and do something that doesn't alienate me, yes it's going to pay less" is not something universally accepted by wives.
Name one thing thats gotten better for men in 50 years.
being gay is more accepted. there’s also much less pressure to conform to masculine standards. e.g., being able to talk about feelings, expressing yourself in fashion/makeup, joining in traditionally feminine careers like ~~nursing~~/teaching (both of which have exploded in the past 50 years). just to name a few
~~they also haven’t used the draft in 50 years~~
edit: striked through things are either factually incorrect (nursing) or more nuanced than my original comment implied (military draft)
Fair. A win for all.
Not the wider experience. Men are still stigmatised for expressing themselves. Example: how often do men get to be emotionally vulnerable in a public setting compared to women?
This is flat out wrong, it's actually getting worse.
https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/gender-equality-and-through-teaching-profession
Sex ratios in healthcare occupations: population based study.
That's because there are enough men who are financially destitute, who sell their lives into the military.
Don't need a draft when there is enough blood money going around.
you’re right about the teachers thing, my apologies for getting things mixed up. from what i can see, i was right about the nursing thing though. here’s a source from columbia verifying that nursing has increased 10x since 1997: https://www.nursing.columbia.edu/news/many-more-men.
my claim wasn’t that men are no longer stigmatized, i was only trying to suggest that it’s better now than it was before. there is still a long way to go.
i agree with this point is general, but i think financial destitution is something that is on the rise for both men and women. you bring up a good point that the decrease in people getting drafted isn’t the win i originally thought it was, so i’ll take that off the list.
things like this made the original question a bit tricky to answer: i can think of many ways in which things have gotten better/worse for both men and women, but i can’t really think of ways in which things have gotten better/worse for men. i can think of a lot of ways things have gotten better for women though (and some ways things have gotten worse)
Here's 3.
Because if everyone only voted for the things that benefit them, then it's possible to end up in a situation that's worse for everybody. If the majorities repeatedly votes for a small benefit to themselves and a large detriment to everyone else, this is basically guaranteed to happen. This is also why voting out of spite is a bad idea.
Example: Let's examine a population consisting of 60% white people and 60% Christians, uncorrelated (so 36% white Christians, 24% nonwhite Christians, 24% white non-Christians, and 16% nonwhite non-Christians). This population is making two votes: one that will be Very Bad for nonwhites, and one that will be Very Bad for non-Christians, with a small benefit to white people or Christians respectively. Both will pass, which results in:
36% of the population (white Christians) gets two small benefits
48% of the population (white non-Christians and nonwhite Christians combined) gets a small benefit and something Very Bad for them
16% of the population (nonwhite non-Christians) gets two Very Bad results passed against them
So the overall result is negative for 64% of the population, despite everyone voting for their interests and everyone voting! This is because the legislation was more bad for the minority than it was good for the majority.
Bonus: I believe you can use this to prove that you can use a sequence of legislation to get into literally any position you want if everyone votes strictly for things that help them, and I saw a good YT video on that topic, but I can't find it right now.
So we should just let 'minorities' suffer? The term appeasement comes to mind, as I don't know what else you could be advocating here.
Why not both? Benefit to minorities and benefit to majorities.
This isn't a zero sum game.
Nice quote. Won't win over men who are shifting Right because of consistent targeted alienation in involvement from the Left
If other people having rights is "targeted alienation", then what should we call denying those people rights based on things they can't control? Because that sounds like actual targeted alienation.
We tried that, ended up with a bunch of grifters coming in, doing a bunch of damage, and then making "why I left the left" videos.
There is a path of healing but it's not going to happen until they address their white supremacy and take it behind the shed.
Fair.
So, this is the predicament for men:
Honestly if not being a fascist piece of shit is that big of a deal breaker you kind of deserve it.
This "data" is hilarious. You should read the article it's attached to. They throw these charts up and then just use 4 or 5 anecdotes to take a victory lap for conservatism.