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Ultrasound can push vaccines into the body without needles
(www.newscientist.com)
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this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
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Sitting for a minute and a half, not including prep and cleanup, or just getting stabbed a little. shrug
Edit: To save the next half dozen people exclaiming "needles!" the trouble. I would refine my point to, "great to have the option but I imagine it as being more of a fallback than the beginning of a new era".
Also stops a lot of medical waste
The needle or the ultrasound, seems like the prick might be less waste
I don't think there would be any need to dispose of any part of the ultrasound system; perhaps a disposable paper or plastic cover to speed up cleaning between patients. Meanwhile the needles are single use and must be disposed of properly since they are a bio-hazard. Can't really see how a needle could possibly compete on the waste side of things.
Yeah, maybe he was talking about something else because it's hard to see what would be worse than used needles.
How?
For people like me who go down for a half hour and feel like a train wreck for 8 hours when they get stabbed a little, I'll take a 1.5min one.
If you told me I needed to run on a treadmill for an hour while the ultrasound worked, I'd STILL take it over getting stabbed a little.
If humans weren't meant to stabbed then we wouldn't be so soft and penetrable.
I do take your point though.
Lol, it's true. But if we were meant to be stabbed we wouldn't have a completely unique dangerous (occasionally it kills people) reaction to it that doesn't resemble most phobias.
Surely that's the vaccine, not the needle?
Happens for blood draws as well, even small quantities. Happens if someone pokes me with a lidocaine. It's a vasovagal reaction where my body "overreacts to certain triggers". My blood pressure and heartrate plummet (to scary low levels. I've freaked out nurses on a couple of occasions). It causes me to feint in a comically dramatic way because the bloodflow to my brain gets too low. To be even more fun, I sometimes exhibit false "seizure" symptoms when I'm down, tightening up all my muscles at once and stopping breathing. During my first COVID vaccine, my breathing stopped for almost a minute, which is why 2 doctors were overseeing me when I came to. My wife explaining the situation is the only reason I didn't end up in an ambulance. You shoulda seen the nurse, she looked as pale as I did!
In theory, this could kill me, and there are confirmed ultra-rare cases of people dying from vasovagal syncope. In practice, I'm far more likely to die of a car accident on the way home (with my wife driving me because I'm in no state to drive after that). So long as a competent medical professional is watching me, I'm basically completely safe. But absolutely miserable.
Honestly, it makes me feel like I'm some kind of drama queen. But it's entirely made up of unconscious responses in my body.
And the weird thing is that it's not thinking about needles. It's my body's reaction to the feeling of a needle entering it. That sad little "prick" feeling that is maybe a 1 out of 10 on the pain scale? I have no idea if it's "trickable" because I have absolutely no problem digging out a splinter with a knife. I keep wanting to find out if getting a tattoo would trigger that reaction or not. I just want to get a tattoo anyway lol.
Huh, I have never heard of such a thing! Sounds very annoying to say the least
It fucking sucks, more because a lot of providers don't (or didn't. They've been getting better) take seriously. They'd treat you like a baby or a hypochondriac, right up until you scare them half to death by WHAT YOU SAID WOULD HAPPEN happening.
The stopping-breathing thing is super-rare, so even people expecting that "complely calm-seeming patient" pass-out are shocked when that same unconscious patient starts holding their breath and shaking.
That sure sounds annoying. I hope being able to plan ahead for the occasional jab makes it not much of a real issue in your life.
Does it happen for accidental/“natural” pokes? You mentioned the splinter thing, but if you had a thorn, cactus needle, or even a piece of glass stuck in your skin and pulled it out, would you do alright?
Basically that. I schedule a day off if I need a jab for any reason, and work from home anyway when I'm miserable the next several days.
All of those are fine. And unlike a lot of people with my issue, blood doesn't bother me in the least. Once in a great while I've gotten a mild version of that from an insect bite, but the feeling is just completely different.
Oddly, I think if a needle hurt more and did some tearing, it wouldn't bother me so much.
But you're asking some really thought-provoking questions. I have a lot of food-related texture issues and while this is COMPLETELY different, I'm suddenly wondering if it's a little more similar than I thought. I do believe there's a psychological component to it; I haven't been able to test, but if I were surprised with a needle jab outside of a medical setting, I have no idea if it would happen to me or not.
What I did discover is that my blood pressure doesn't rise and my heartbeat doesn't go up in "prep". I don't seem to have a stress-rise effect for it to be stress-plummet related. I'm not asking anyone to surprise me with a shot, but I really do wonder what would happen.
Wow. That sucks. Wishing the best for you.
Honestly, I wouldn't trade it for the medical conditions of some of my family and friends. It sucks, and makes me hate doctors, but it won't kill me.
I mean, I'd take this over diabetes and/or asthma shrug
Have you tried EMLA?
... genuinely I've never been offered (even had to google EMLA)
But now that you mention it, I've never had this particular issue from novicaine at the dentist. And they always use a topical.
Next time I need a shot/blood, I'll see if they're willing to try that! Since it really does seem to be about the poke itself, something that changes the feeling might be exactly what works.
Just source it yourself, it's over the counter in the UK and unlikely to be difficult elsewhere. Apply thirty mins beforehand with the patch over, make sure you put it where the injection will go of course... remove when ready, wipe the cream away and voila, no feeling. The dentist uses a spray anaesthetic before needles; despite my phobia, I don't really mind gum injections, very weird.
Needle phobias are extremely common, and the thing about phobias is that you're fully aware that the fear isn't coming from a rational place, which is part of what makes them so frustrating to deal with.
Lol yeah when I get vaccinated the anxiety fully fades the moment the needle enters my arm.
I’ll take it over having a sore arm for a day or two.
Getting a shot isn’t a big deal, but neither is sitting for five minutes.
Some people are afraid of the needle
It's not just the time we've saved here. Think of people on insulin that have to take shots multiple times a day.
The medical implications of this are massive it is absolutely a game changer.
If it ever comes into fruition.
We'll have to wait and see how this impacts anything that needs to be injected deeper than skin level, which is why the focus is on vaccines.
It's certainly less time effective if administering vaccines to large populations at once, but the increased antibody generation could absolutely make it worth it. Don't know much about these things, but could mean the difference between two jabs and one 1.5 minute appointment.
Maybe one way of looking at it might be : this would be safe enough you could trust people to self-administer, and you could therefore take the professional with the needle out of the equation.
90 seconds of one person's time has got to be better than the quick jab by two people, no?
Depending on how specific the injection needs to be, there are a number of scenarios in which people can self-administer injections. So, ignoring people who physically can't self-administer, it isn't that dramatic a change.
I can't help but feel that the professional would be even more necessary to administer this correctly and not just waste a treatment/dose doing it wrong, whilst under the illusion that you did it right. Along with the specialised equipment needed for it in the first place. Needles and doses at least are pretty easily self-contained and if it is suitable for self application just "pointy end goes in fat bit of you".
Naturally it's early days, so it'll be fascinating to see how this develops.
I agree! Auto injectors aren't cheap compared to ye olde trusty ampule and syringe, and this might push the costs towards the higher end again. I can see a kids-and-the-latex-allergic edge case scenario.
Can't wait to see what develops 😄
I don't think any amount of de-specializing would be enough to trust the ignorant and/or malicious masses could or would self-administer adequately.
You're right. Can't just post them to folks and expect 100% uptake. It might widen the possibilities of more people getting more vaccines, though. In my books, this can only be a good thing.