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submitted 11 months ago by Gormadt to c/196

Image Transcription:

A tweet from the George Takei Twitter account which states:

"A Democrat was in the White House when my family was sent to the internment camps in 1941. It was an egregious violation of our human and civil rights.

It would have been understandable if people like me said they’d never vote for a Democrat again, given what had been done to us.

But being a liberal, being a progressive, means being able to look past my own grievances and concerns and think of the greater good. It means working from within the Democratic party to make it better, even when it has betrayed its values.

I went on to campaign for Adlai Stevenson when I became an adult. I marched for civil rights and had the honor of meeting Dr. Martin Luther King. I fought for redress for my community and have spent my life ensuring that America understood that we could not betray our Constitution in such a way ever again.

Bill Clinton broke my heart when he signed DOMA into law. It was a slap in the face to the LGBTQ community. And I knew that we still had much work to do. But I voted for him again in 1996 despite my misgivings, because the alternative was far worse. And my obligation as a citizen was to help choose the best leader for it, not to check out by not voting out of anger or protest.

There is no leader who will make the decision you want her or him to make 100 percent of the time. Your vote is a tool of hope for a better world. Use it wisely, for it is precious. Use it for others, for they are in need of your support, too."

End Transcription.

The last paragraph I find particularly powerful and something more people really should take into account.

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[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Alright. Here's the scenario.

You're at the ballot box. It is between Biden and Trump. In this hypothetical it is so far a tie. They are neck to neck. Let's say it is 5 mil votes to 5 mil. Either needs one more vote to win. Your vote is the deciding one to be president.

What do you do?

[-] knightly@pawb.social 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Refuse to vote because the right-wing bias of the electoral college would give that hypothetical election to Trump either way, just like it did in 2016.

For the sake of argument let us ignore the electoral college, in which case I would still refuse to vote since a tie must be broken by Congress in an undemocratic process that harms the government's claim to legitimacy just like when the supreme court gave the 2000 election to Bush.

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

So you relinquish responsibility and defer it to another entity? One that is currently corrupt and broke, paralleling your issue with the executive office and election process.

So you'd put it up to some nebulous future decision, by another entity, with who'd be president? If Trump is elected he isn't leaving office. We are going full fash, and people of color and queer folk will be going first. Trans people will most likely first.

If Biden wins, for the most part the status quo stays the same but we get a chance to democratically make life better. Trans people are much safer in this path, same with other marginalized folk.

With this information, would you reconsider your answer?

[-] knightly@pawb.social 4 points 11 months ago

As a trans person myself, I dont want to be a martyr but I cannot abide by a false choice between bad and worse. That isn't Democracy, it's a Faustian Bargain that can only temporarily delay the inevitable crisis of legitimacy that marks the end of the American Empire.

Justice delayed is justice denied, and waiting for a more convenient hour will only preserve a status quo where people like me are frequently murdered without consequence.

In full consideration of the risk, I must continue to insist that Democrats aren't worthy of my time and energy. Instead, I focus on building robust networks of mutual aid and community support that we might minimize loss of life during the transition to a new form of government.

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Why can't you do that while being under a democratic presidency? Why not vote for Biden, prevent deaths and pain and human suffering, but also work towards that goal?

Under fascism, good luck doing that. It's going to be impossible to build robust networks of mutual aid. You are going to be in a concentration camp next to me, waiting in line to be gased or cooked.

And who needs to give Dems time or energy? Fuck them. I barely think about them. I vote blue, and while I do l, I work with my community to make it better. I help support progressive candidates and policies, unions, and so much more. All this only possible under a non-fascistic regime.

To me, it sounds like you're waiting for that convenient hour. That right candidate. I rather do that while alive and have my freedoms.

[-] knightly@pawb.social 2 points 11 months ago

Why can't you do that while being under a democratic presidency?

There's a Democrat in office now.

Why not vote for Biden, prevent deaths and pain and human suffering, but also work towards that goal?

Whether or not I actually vote is nobody's business but my own. My public threats to withhold my vote are a sentiment manipulation strategy for pushing the party to suck less.

Under fascism, good luck doing that. It's going to be impossible to build robust networks of mutual aid.

They managed to do it in Chile while Republicans and Democrats were sponsoring the Pinochet regime. We'll do it too, because we'll have to.

And who needs to give Dems time or energy? Fuck them. I barely think about them. I vote blue

And by admitting it, you reveal yourself as a "safe" voter whom the party can ignore rather than a potentially reachable voter that the party must actively pander to.

To me, it sounds like you're waiting for that convenient hour. That right candidate. I rather do that while alive and have my freedoms.

I don't discuss the details of my political activities in public, but you can trust that I'm not waiting around for some hero to swoop in and save the day. I've been disappointed too many times before.

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I believe we should reduce harm. We shouldn't cause more pain and suffering. Not voting for Biden does this. This accelerationism is a gigantic gamble, and no matter what it will just increase pain. If Trump becomes presidency, it won't just be another Republican. It will be another Hitler. You are trans right? You are at the front of the chopping block. You aren't getting any of your goals done.

I am ultimately not telling you what to vote for. I want to explore what makes an individual think why they shouldn't vote this upcoming election. This hypothetical leads to genocide. It's unfortunate many people think this way. I don't want my partner and loved ones come to harm. We don't have that privilege to not vote.

[-] knightly@pawb.social 1 points 11 months ago

I agree, we should reduce harm.

That's why I'm doing everything I can to push the Democrats to reform now, rather than promising to "vote blue no matter who" and sitting on my ass 'til voting day.

Its astounding to me that so many folks in these comments have such little faith in the party that they skip straight to the assumption that I won't be voting and waste time trying to change my mind rather than calling their representatives and demanding they shape up.

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

It's because you said you wouldn't vote for Biden. It's because of the accelerationist perspective which will kill minorities.

[-] knightly@pawb.social 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Then maybe they should call up the Democrats and tell them to run somebody who isn't a war criminal.

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

That's not going to change the fact of the next election candidates. We need to work with the system. We need to mobilize grassroot movements and affect local politics. Look at the wins in Michigan or Minnesota (forgot which) that had a full Democratic government. We got so much ground there. We gain a lot more when we have Dems instead of Repubs at the head of power.

[-] knightly@pawb.social 1 points 11 months ago

That's not going to change the fact of the next election candidates.

It's a shame, but it's not changing my message. The party needs to shape up and start sending war criminals to the Hague instead of the White House.

We need to work with the system.

The system is designed to disenfranchise us, especially if we work with it. I'm glad to leave room for a plurality of tactics, though. You go ahead and push the envelope from the inside and I'll pull from out here.

We need to mobilize grassroot movements and affect local politics.

Yup, strikes need organization too. Especially when the bargaining unit consists of about 165 million democrats and nonvoters. If you run into anybody else that wants the party to reform and is willing to not-vote about it, send them my way.

We gain a lot more when we have Dems instead of Repubs at the head of power.

But we could be getting a lot more, especially if the Democrats started doing wildly popular things like forgiving student debt, blocking arms deals to war zones, and putting republicans on record voting against bills for postal banking, a public healthcare option, municipal broadband, etc.

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Perfection is the enemy of progress.

Yes, we need better candidates. Yes, we need these policies passed to change the material conditions of American. But the Dems will NEVER be perfect. Progressive will NEVER be perfect. Socialists, communist party, etc. will NEVER be perfect. We need to work with what we have.

Right now we are faced with the decision of the country becoming fascist, making our goals unattainable, or working with a democratic system and doing our best moving socialist ideals. I rather do the work in that environment than seeing my partner and loved ones die because they are trans. I rather not be put in a concentration camp.

Nothing will happen if America becomes fascist. We are done. Our movement will be quelled. Mass death. This isn't an exaggeration. Look at Project 2025 and you can extrapolate from there.

[-] knightly@pawb.social 1 points 11 months ago

Perfection is the enemy of progress. (

Exactly, hence my insistence that the party is not already perfect no matter how much of its management thinks their shit doesnt stink.

We need to work with what we have.

If theres only going to be one game in town then it behooves us to use every tool at our disposal to push them in the right direction.

Nothing will happen if America becomes fascist.

America is already fascist, the only question that remains is bad it has to get before we'll throw out the government and start over.

this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
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