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this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
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You know, if you use Linux you don't have to jump through hoops like this (trivial though they may be). Wouldn't it be nice to not have an adversarial, abusive relationship with your OS?
Some of you sound like the annoying stereotype of vegans pushing their diet lifestyle.
That's because like vegans, there is a moral imperative that most ignore or don't care about, we have a genuine emotional attachment to foss, and because you are ignorant of the topic, you don't care to listen.
What he said is harmless, true, and there is a moral imperative to say it, and ontop of that it isn't like a diet, it's better software that respects you, doesn't spy on you, and for free and the only downside is a 15 minute install process (and the use of a flash drive). Why do you care enough to fight that?
I'm all for Linux and have been using it for years, but saying a 15min install is the only downside is disingenuous. For many people there are a few programs they rely on that won't work on Linux, and hardware support and general user-friendliness are still not quite where they should be.
the vast majority of hardware is supported, and as someone who works IT and gives linux to the elderly, I don't agree at all with the user unfriendliness, provided you use mint and kde.
If your software doesn't run that does suck, but the vast majority of usecases work perfectly with the breif explanation of "use the app store for any software you need to install." Do you have any examples of user friendliness issues, or is it just that there are choices to make at all?
"The vast majority" is useless if the hardware someone has doesn't work, and you usually don't get official support and warranty from the manufacturer for Linux. There are also some categories like webcams, audio equipment or fingerprint readers where Linux support is still notoriously bad. And even if something mostly works, it's fairly common for some hardware to have missing features, instabilities or minor issues on Linux. E.g. my mouse works on Linux ofc, but the software to set and edit profiles doesn't.
Usability issues are mostly cases where you have to fall back to the terminal. An example from my experience would be that trying to upgrade the system from the app store fails half the time, so I have to use the terminal. Another would be a failed boot or graphics issues due to a broken Nvidia driver installation or messed up SELinux policies. It's all fixable in the terminal, but good luck if you can't use that.
I would not agree that is common at all, these are edge cases and I bet your mouse works with piper.
plus soon immutable distros will fix any chance of system breakages, and it's not like similar things don't regularly happen on windows.
How much are you willing to bet? I give a hint, there is an open issue from 2016 on their GitHub about supporting the manufacturer of my mouse. And that's pretty much the point, because on Windows I just get the software with the box and that's it. Of course it's closed source and stuff, but it still provides a better experience than no support at all. And that's just one example, Linux also can't use the highest available resolution of my webcam, and the fingerprint reader on my laptop has been completely unusable on Linux from day one.
Immutable distros fix most boot issues, in the sense that you can undo a failed change, but that's about it.
Ofc Windows has its fair share of issues, but it just doesn't break as much in my experience. Probably because they have orders of magnitude more people working on finding and fixing consumer issues, incl. from 3rd party device and software manufacturers.
I'm sorry, but you're lying to yourself if you think consumer support is on par with Windows. It's getting closer and closer every year, but we are not there yet.
You can not agree with OP, but that doesn't change reality. Linux is a pain to use for a regular user. Linux doesn't support some programs that people depend on and have learned to use. Those things aren't an issue for Windows, people don't need to look around for fixes.
I get it, you like it. But the reality of it is - it's a niche operating system for home use for a reason.
If linux was a better software, it would have a substantial desktop share. But it doesn't since it's the most unintuitive userhating software built by man.
Because as we all know, the free market always comes up with the correct answer and is never distorted by companies.
I've never seen any OS being shilled like linux, it even beats apple fanboys during its heyday. A free OS that's constantly pushed down our throats should by all means be a consumers number 1 choice if it was good.
But I guess having to learn 5 million commands to open a folder is bad design, who knew? I have better use for my time than debug drivers and figure out dependencies when W10 sort of works all that out for me in an intuitive fashion.
Thanks for showing that you're not acting in good faith, bye.
Just fuck off and let me use whatever OS I want
Nobody has forced you to do anything, suggesting better, more respectful software is not force, why bother fighting against a more ethical alternative that respects you?
You're free to choose and they're free to criticise.
The whole point of computers, as far as I can tell, is to be that abusive relationship we never could perfect with humans. Linux is no exception, it's just more passive-aggressive and better with gaslighting.
"You see, if only you'd installed this dependency, which I showed you so clearly in the error logs all along - and I categorised them so nicely - but you never like to look there, do you? - I mean, I understand, and that's why I mentioned it - not too strongly, because I didn't want to upset you more - in the terminal output..."
Most Linux developers don't include anti-features on purpose, but Windows developers do.
I think dependencies have gotten simpler on Linux with flatpak. The fact that the command-line is still sometimes needed on Linux is just a fact of life. Nobody is forcing users to use it out of any sort of passive-aggressive distain for users, but just that it takes less time out of volunteer developers' schedules to buold command-line tools.
I think one thing to note in the CLI-GUI debate though is that Windows pushed hard against CLI interfaces from day 1. Even starting with Windows 3, there were a lot of things you couldn't do with CLI easily, while Unix has always had full CLI support. Users being unfamiliar with CLI interfaces is a symptom of Windows dominance.
I use command line by choice on Linux, but find myself forced to use PowerShell to make a windows installation that is somewhat bearable.
Package managers have become so much better with dependencies. It's been a while since I've encountered an issue, with yay it very usually works out of the box.
My stint with Ubuntu... 16? Did not end well.
You realize that 16 means 2016, right? That's almost 8 years ago. And even as someone who uses Linux I don't like Ubuntu. I highly recommend trying Mint, Fedora, or EndeavourOS (Arch)
In that same Linux I had to rack my brain and still failed to launch the game I want.
You mean like that relationship?
Sure Linux has its own pros, but not what I need.
I used to think the same and sure there are still definitely games that won't work, but gaming on Linux has come a loooong way. And with the recent bullshit that Microsoft is pulling with Windows 10 and especially 11 I just couldn't take it anymore.
I just pulled the trigger last week and took out my Windows 10 drive! Ironically, league of legends broke on Linux again the next day. But I'm sticking with it. Windows is just so slow, bloated, and hard to navigate. And all my games run fine on Linux. LoL will probably be fixed again soon.
I'd say Linux not running League is a feature π come play StarCraft and micro more than one unit π
Or Dota.
Are you using Steam? What game isn't compatible with Linux and/or requires significant user effort to run?
I've spent countless hours playing a game called Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI with PUK, which comes with its own DRM (non-Steam). Despite its availability on Steam, I'm hesitant to buy it again for the same experience, especially since it doesn't run on Linux.
Another game I enjoy, Dead by Daylight on Steam, consistently runs into issues such as severe memory leaks, unresponsive spacebar after alt-tabbing, random freezes, and occasional stutters no matter what troubleshooting I attempt.
Lastly, my wife and I frequently play Fall Guys. While it's mostly audio-related, there are occasional random disconnects that never happen on Windows, which can be frustrating for a game meant for casual enjoyment
Skill issue
Says linux elitist.
These people are another barrier on the road to Linux adoption. I personally had an issue with Void Linux, a systemd free distro whose manual is seriously lacking and lots of what is in Arch Wiki may not apply there. I went to their support server, detailed my problem and said that I had done what their manual said. The first response, I get is read the manual when it is just a page long(for the specific issue I was facing).
Ultimately, it was boiling down to a wrong flag attached to the command that was listed on the official website that was not solving my problem.
Bruh, computers are tools to accomplish a task, if you wanna obsess over jack shit, then stare at the toilet, dont gatekeep a hobby.
Or maybe the one that I had to reinstall every other month because it kept failing to boot (probably because I broke something because I had no clue what I was doing and trying to get stuff working).
Linux not being able to launch a game (that probably was not made for it) is not a relationship issue but a technical one.
Even if it is possible to run the game but you need to hack around your distro's configurations, you can be certain the default configuration was not made with the specific intent of preventing you from running the game.
In the Windows case you are not hacking around with the json file to solve a technical issue.
Windows is not misconfigured, it's Microsoft's explicit decision to prevent you from removing some of it's software even if it's forced by law to do so for other people.
It's ok if you don't mind Microsoft's behavior or you just find Linux's technical issues more important in choosing an OS. But the issues are not similar neither equivalent.
Listen, I probably one of the most hardcore linux propagandists out there, which spells disaster when I confess I'm anything but a tech guru, but even I am aware some people are too off the deep end to swim back and move to another OS.
Windows is locked in a dominant position and regardless how bad their solutions are in fact, not enough tech/privacy aware high level managers exist to push windows off the corporate shelf.
The alternative is to spread Linux and FOSS to kids and incentivize the use and exploring of technology because it is simply fun to do it, not shotgun proseletize and hope something sticks.
Your intention is good but the method, which I often use as well, needs a lot of refining.
And if you use Linux you have to jump through hoops to install (non-steam) games. I know, just yesterday I had to search a working tutorial for installing Fall Guys.
BTW for anyone needing help in the future, this worked: https://youtu.be/X41PlQNx0vk
Anyone who makes a stand to defend Linux as a gaming platform over Windows is righteously impractical at best, and a principled idiot at worst. Itβs simply not there yet.
This isn't much of a hoop, you install wine and run the installer with it, furthermore, I'd rather deal with the kind of hoop that isn't actively harming you intentionally any day.
It was not easy. Other guides didn't work, I had to find it, and also do or, so it took like 1 and a half hour.
My advice is honestly, just use steam, it's largely a better experience anyway. I don't think fall guys is exactly necessary. That's a very self-imposed hoop, i'd get it if it was critical work, or if there were no alternatives, but, steam is a perfect experience.
It's epics job to support linux, not linux's job to support epic.
You ignore the reality though that even though it might be "epics job" to support Linux, it's still the user's problem right now if you want to play Fall Guys with your friends.
And you can't just say "playing Fall Guys is not exactly necessary". Social connections are very important to humans, being one of a group to not be able to participate in a shared activity can be socially isolating. Of course that's a completely different topic you could argue about if it should be like this, but you can only dismiss it as not necessary for yourself, not as not necessary in general, for others.
If you use Windows, it works immediately, if you use Linux, you have to spend the time and do whatever that guy did. This is a very real cost for the user, time is one of the most precious things we have.
Of course you can argue about if it is worth it, but in the end people assign different value to things. If playing Fall Guys is very important to someone and it takes more time to do on Linux than on Windows, then Linux loses value. And this situation is not a single instance. People mostly only do what is the best for them in particular, and using less time to do the things they want to do is a prime example for this.
You do realize how much money Microsoft spends to make games work well on Windows, right? It is absolutely the responsibility of the OS to ensure smooth experience across many apps and services. This attitude right here is why Linux plays second fiddle to Windows still.
It's not Linux or Windows. For example Gaming and everyday Tasks I use Windows because Games I play run much better on Windows and I like to use it more. But for things like programming I will use Linux. I'm just beginning learning to code but I already made the painful experience of trying to get compiler, debugger etc. running on windows.
Linux and Windows are Tools. You can't use a Hammer for every Taks, sometimes you need a Screwdriver.
Yeah, let me know when Revit, Civil 3D, ArcGIS, OpenRoads Designer are operable and supported on Linux.
Ableton Live and plugins don't work on Linux, and I'd rather run it on my own build, so I have to use Windows. That's also the machine I game on. Everything else is Debian.
You could try Bitwig. I have a friend that prefers it over Ableton even on Windows. And Windows-only VSTs work with Yabridge