985
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
985 points (100.0% liked)
Technology
59598 readers
2824 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Almost like when you take religion out of the picture it's one country committing genocide against another which is never okay for any reason. Israel can scream "but muh anti-semitism" all they want but it's a scapegoat. Ignore Jewish/Muslim backgrounds and look at what's really going on. It's nothing but a disgusting land grab and genocide that's been going on since WW2.
The world would 100% be a better place without Israel, and that's nothing to do with their religion. The country itself is evil and corrupt. They are bigoted and hypocritical. Israel deserves no sympathy or support. Out of all the bullshit I've seen happen in the middle east the past few decades, Israel is definitely the most abhorrent and repulsive source of conflict.
What do you think about Hamas? Why do they exist and what is their actual agenda? Is it really at the very top simply helmed by limousine-riding desert kings in Quatar?
Hamas is as bad as Isreal, but they are Isreal's own creation. Most Palestinians don't support Hamas just like most Isrealis don't support their own government. It is two governments trying to commit genocide on the others civilians. Their are no good guys here. Just thousands of innocent civilians being massacred on both sides. The main difference is the US has decided to give one of these governments committing genocide the most advanced weapons available and practically no governments are even trying to help the Palestinians anymore. Not to mention hamas is commiting genocide to take back land the palestinians had a 100 years ago while the isrealis are commiting genocide to take back land they had 2000 years ago while pretending the palestians never even existed and spouting off racist revisionist history.
Except Israel is a country that wants to live in peace and Hamas has IT IN THEIR FUCKING CHARTER that they want to kill all Jews.
And when Hamas actually acts on their charter, the whole world goes shocked-Pikachu-face and condemns Israel for self defense and not agreeing to just be killed
No. Hamas' charter was written at a time when Israel was committing atrocities in Palestine. It was written in anger by about half a dozen people. Noam Chomsky explains this pretty well. The original charter is basically irrevelent and has basically been disavowed by Hamas.
The current charter says they would accept the 1969 borders.
"living in peace" is not invading someone's land, taking their homes, slaughtering them, and putting them in a concentration camp for decades while killing kids when they retaliate.
You mean returning to the homeland after the Holocaust to a country as per UN resolutions , self-defense from terrorism in civilian areas (like suicide bombers and rockets into cities), and unilaterally disengaging from the Gaza Strip in 2005 while giving millions of dollars to a corrupt system that embezzled most of what wasn't used to build weapons and terrorism infrastructure and teach children to love death and murdering Jews in their beds like they did on October 7th
Have you read it? It doesn't say that.
Yeah, Hamas isn't as bad as Israel, it's literally a resistance movement to the people that ethnically cleansed their population from their land and kept them in a concentration camp for two decades. The unbalanced condemnation tbph is the result of a concerted Israeli/Western propaganda campaign to obscure the context and nature of the attacks, including the hundreds of Palestinian people killed in 2023 before Oct. 7, and more fundamentally, the fact that Israel has been keeping 2.4M people in a high-tech concentration camp for the last two decades.
The atrocity claims against Hamas from Oct. 7 have some serious evidentiary issues at this point, even including some unknown number of the civilian deaths being attributable to the IDF (literally firing at, shelling and bombing Israeli citizens - though to be clear, there is video of Hamas shooting civilians as well). You compare this to the inhuman genocide being levied against Palestinians now - food, water, electricity, fuel, medicine being cut off for 5 weeks at this point, likely upwards of 20,000 civilians killed, at least half of the buildings in Gaza damaged or destroyed, attacks on hospitals, schools, refugee camps, ambulances, journalists, aid workers, without legitimate substantiation of their repurposing for military purposes - these are crimes against humanity. There is no equivalence here.
The PA has power in the west bank, but not in Gaza (where Hamas is in charge). They're not a very effective government, but they don't seem to have genocidal intent either.
Do we really need to argue which murderers are slightly less murdery?
The people in charge on both sides are doing their people a disservice by killing a shit load of people which in turn leads to the other side killing even more people.
Is there a surgical removal that could ameliorate this? Like is there an actual "Who" that needs to go if there's to be any progress? I feel like this situation could use a panel of new eyes to help usher in the future
How is Isreal not also a "fucked up religious/fascist terrorist organization"?
You describe Isreal as happy and modern as some kind of defense, but having overwhelming military superiorty over neighbors, taking their land, and having extremely close ties with modernized western countries would cause that.
How exactly is Isreal not religious (state religion is Judaism). How is it not terroristic (you kill one of their citizens they kill 10 of your citizens and take your land)? How is it not fascist when Gaza is literally a concentration camp for 2 million people? Two wrongs don't make a right, and having bigger guns certainly doesn't make them righteous.
I wonder if the fact they aren't muslim or as brown makes them better to you?
Out of 27 countries, only three have official religions and they're pretty small. Don't talk shit out of your ass maybe?
Wow you literally went so "whataboutist" that you actually say "what about" in your sentence.
do you genuinely think israel wants this tiny stretch of land, even at the cost of all of this(thousands of israelis dead, more soldiers die every day, rockets and terror attacks from lebanon, syria and yemen, and all the public backlash) I'll tell you a hint, they truly don't and if they did, they won't take it this slowly, and this carefully not to hurt civilians if they truly just wanted the tiny piece of land, it would have been so kuch easier to just indiscriminately level the entire place (without the need for a ground invasion)
I know I'm not gonna change any minds here as people like you who have already decided israel is the culmination of all evil won't back down from that belief that easily, but just try to not assume every israeli born is a racist Palestinian hater, and try to think why would they go through all of this, what do they stand to gain or to lose, assuming of course they are rational human beings
btw if it's genocide for the past 56 years, they are truly really really bad at committing genocide
Yes, the leaders of Isreal want palestine removed from the map. They are not taking it carefully. They are indiscriminately leveling Gaza right now. Please ask the 4000 dead palestinian children how careful the Isrealis have been.
Wanting to commit genocide and having the political capital to get away with it are two different things. I know several isrealis that felt their country was commiting genocide and I know for fact that not all Isrealis are bad. Criticism of Isreal is not an attack on all isrealis just like criticism of Hamas is not an attack on all palestinians.
Getting your death count from a terrorist organization known for lying and inflating numbers is ridiculous.
When Hamas hide and build a shitload of terrorist infrastructure in civilian areas, you evidently get a lot of leveling happening, destroying that terrorist infrastructure.
Israel does more than any other country to minimize civilian deaths. But I'm sure you know about Hamas using civilians as human shields and outright shooting Gaza civilians trying to get away from the area
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-doubts-humanitarian-agencies-consider-gaza-toll-reliable-2023-10-27/
The health ministry is a medical organization, regardless of being under Hamas rule.
Just like Shifa Hospital isn't used as a terrorist base.
Terrorists threaten and infilitrate even legitimate organizations in a corrupt government
Despite the raid ~24 hours ago, and the release, deletion and then re-release of an "uncut" video of the hospital since then, this absolutely remains to be proven. If anything the burden of proof has gone up, after the absolute bullshit they just published about it and about Rantisi hospital.
Also it's "Al Shifa", as in, "The Healing".
For the number of times this specific hospital is used as justification you'd think they would have produced actual evidence for that claim by now.
They have: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/16/idf-says-hamas-hiding-evidence-of-use-of-shifa-hospital-as-command-centre
if you were right, a ground invasion would have never happened they would just drop a few very large bombs and be done with it without endangering more israeli soldiers
Gaza's population stands at around 2 million it's one of the most densely populated places on earth i feel like if they wanted after 40 days there would have been much much more than 4000 dead Palestinian children more in the area of 400000
also i still don't get why in your view israel wants Palestine removed from the map, if we established it's not the tiny piece of land itself
Why do they want to commit genocide
With the current situation prior to the attack how much was palestine costing Israel? Gaza cannot supply itself with water, electricity, or food. Israel needs to maintain border security too. Without palestine these costs go away or at least decrease significantly. Israel has already stated they believe this attack justifies them cutting off water, electricity, and food supplies in perpetuity. This in affect will kill most of the 2 million and will cost them less political capitol than bombing the Palestinians.
So why do they want to commit genocide? Money, power, revenge, racism, and religion are the main reasons, but they vary from person to person obviously.
Try to separate the civilians from Hamas, and yeah, starve the terrorists and supply aid to the civilians they have removed from harm's way.
According to your faulty logic, it would be a hell of a lot easier to literally bomb everything without warning nor humanitarian corridors
You will never ever have a productive conversation with racists or terrorist sympathizers.
They want the land and the $500 billion worth of natural gas in the sea
have you looked at the territorial waters? in no way do gaza contest them in the ocean
1h, 0 downvotes.
Good luck buddy.
I'd say they're good at it considering they're getting away with it.
You can say "the world would be better without Israel" without actually calling for the eradication of the country. I think creating Israel was a historical mistake, but that doesn't make it a mistake you can just paint over. Solutions must come from acknowledging the current reality and the innocent people who live at both sides of the border and their rights and dignity.
Land grab? Can you explain? It looks like the status quo has been maintained since 1967 or so?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories
Ignoring all the ongoing colonization, didn't they just take Jerusalem a couple years ago when Trump said they could put their embassy there?
Israel has allowed settlers to continuously claim land from the West Bank, enclosing its territory from the Palestinians who already lived there, preventing the Palestinian Authority from imprisoning settlers or kicking them out, and refusing to pursue legal action against settlers while illegally imprisoning Palestinians for retaliating when they see their land getting stolen without anyone defending them.