this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2023
204 points (100.0% liked)
Communism
27 readers
1 users here now
Discussion Community for fellow Marxist-Leninists and other Marxists.
Rules for /c/communism
Rules that visitors must follow to participate. May be used as reasons to report or ban.
- No non-marxists
This subreddit is here to facilitate discussion between marxists.
There are other communities aimed at helping along new communists. This community isn't here to convert naysayers to marxism.
If you are a member of the police, armed forces, or any other part of the repressive state apparatus of capitalist nations, you will be banned.
- No oppressive language
Do not attempt to justify your use of oppressive language.
Doing this will almost assuredly result in a ban. Accept the criticism in a principled manner, edit your post or comment accordingly, and move on, learning from your mistake.
We believe that speech, like everything else, has a class character, and that some speech can be oppressive. This is why speech that is patriarchal, white supremacist, cissupremacist, homophobic, ableist, or otherwise oppressive is banned.
TERF is not a slur.
- No low quality or off-topic posts
Posts that are low-effort or otherwise irrelevant will be removed.
This is not a place to engage in meta-drama or discuss random reactionaries on lemmy or anywhere else.
This includes memes and circlejerking.
This includes most images, such as random books or memorabilia you found.
We ask that amerikan posters refrain from posting about US bourgeois politics. The rest of the world really doesn’t care that much.
- No basic questions about marxism
Posts asking entry-level questions will be removed.
Questions like “What is Maoism?” or “Why do Stalinists believe what they do?” will be removed, as they are not the focus on this forum.
- No sectarianism
Marxists of all tendencies are welcome here.
Refrain from sectarianism, defined here as unprincipled criticism. Posts trash-talking a certain tendency or marxist figure will be removed. Circlejerking, throwing insults around, and other pettiness is unacceptable.
If criticisms must be made, make them in a principled manner, applying Marxist analysis.
The goal of this subreddit is the accretion of theory and knowledge and the promotion of quality discussion and criticism.
Check out ProleWiki for a communist wikipedia.
Communism study guide
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Go ahead liberals. Call me a tankie. See if I give one ten thousandth of a fuck. Literally such a low-tier insult. “Uhh its like… uh…you support this large cool looking machine that stopped Color Revolutions and was responsible for Liberating the Eastern Front during World War II” “Yea, I do😐” “😨”
Tankie means you approve when a communist state uses military/tanks against its own people... Not against a Nazi state. I would reconsider if you really want to wear that label with pride..
Tankie just means "any communist I don't like" at this point. Take your McCarthyism and complete ignorance about color revolutions elsewhere.
Nice definition of tankie! Got that from wish?
At what point does being clowned on by an entire instance spur self-reflection?
Look what people wrote as replies to my comment, look how the upvote downvote numbers are, think.
My key takeaway from this post is: people on lemmygrad say they are interested in discussion and all those other instances are oh so bad, because they block them or doenvote them or call them tankies, which people on lemmygrad interpret as slur.
At the same time, you get down voted to oblivion, when you even write the definition of tankies to someone, who calls himself one. People who are pride to be a tankies onLemmygrad: cherished People who criticise this in anyway: laught at.
And simultaneously everyone who calls anyone else except him self a tankie no matter the context is automatically a liberal, when Servers defederate them, they are all facists or love fascists
People making strawman arguments when I say in a discussion that I don't agree with Stalin ("ohhh so capitalism is sooo much better" - no, its not, and I didn't say that, I can disagree with capitalism and stlinism at the same time, go figure)
And people defending (literal) tankies get upvoted, people who don't get down voted.
This server has lost one of the strongest tools in material dialectic: (self-) critical thinking
I really hoped I would find interesting debates here, but this is a circlejerk
At what point will self reflection kick in? At what point t people in an echo chamber realise its one?
If you don't send tanks into hungary, the nazis will do pogroms and construct concentration camps there. Not sending tanks is inhumanly cruel.
I 100% agree, and tho I very much like Stalin(he’s my favorite writer) it doesn’t take a “Stalinist” to understand that Color Revolutions and Nazism need to be crushed for socialism to survive
Mathematician 1: 1+1=2 Mathematician 2: 1+1=2
Debatebro: Muh echo chamber!
Yeah, cause stating "tankie" means "every communist I don't like" is the only truth and like saying 1+1 =2
Also comparing societal questions to mathematical ones is totally unconcerning
/kappa
Marxism-Leninism is a branch of science. What I'm saying is that we all get the same results because that's how science works.
Everyone who has in interest in science knows that you can't prove opinions, but only facts. You can prove stuff like "capitalism is destroying the ecosystem" or "China masacered the Uigurs" you can't prove stuff like "Stalin was right" or "the bests way to interpret Marx is to consider the context he wrote in"
That's the basic difference between empirical and normative science.
And basically all questions of politics are at least partially normative.
I agree that materialistic dialectics can be used as scientific tools, and are by most people, but science also means, you accept that no one can have the "only true opinion" as empirical facts can be interpreted widely different and no human has ALL information. And even if one had, there are always subjective weightings at play (is human suffering worse than human death? Is animal death worse than human suffering? Is the system more valuable than individual freedoms?)
Science means knowing what you can and can't prove, so if you are scientific, you know that not everybody comes to the same conclusion even when using the same facts.
gonna need proof of "China masacered[sic] the Uigurs[sic]" that doesn't cite the far-right extremist Falun Gong cult, its "news" site The Epoch Times, or its Western mouthpiece, fundamentalist evangelical Christian pastor Adrian Zenz.
So what's your problem then? The tanks were sent and the nazis were crushed. Also, krushchev sent the tanks, not stalin. What's your problem with stalin?
What's my problem with Stalin?
I could not have described my problem with talking to people here better than you demonstrated it in this simple question, even if I would have used 100 words.
You being dumbfounded that you have to justify your baseless beliefs that Stalin is some monster is a perfect summary of why you're a lib who will gladly side with fascists when your treats are at stake.
Yeah it seems the problem is that you are a liberal. You calling us woke is a sign of being a wrecker.
Ahaha it gets better every comment. -(Wrong) Assumtions about my political believes -ranting about stuff I day don't even say (classical strawman)
This is a joke that just keeps on giving :D
It's in the title. It's the new woke.
Try reading what thread you're in first.
Also: Would you send tanks into hungary?
There's that empty liberal appeal to an assumed normative opinion again, combined with "uhh actually you have now proven my nebulous non-point by asking a basic question"
My man is floundering
Jean le Flambeur? More like Jean le Flounder.
At least nobody is actually deleting your comments. When I posted the original thing to lemmy.world about how the word 'tankie' is used to stop all discourse, and then responded with many points, they deleted everything. As in poof no dialogue at all. At least we are all reading your words and responding. The downvotes don't mean anything other than there is disagreement with the conclusions of the argument is all. I say keep talking! I will upvote all your stuff. It is all about dialogue.
For real, they complain about "authoritarian tankies and their echo chambers" when we're not even censoring them like they do to us, they just can't handle being shown to be wrong.
You can't be an echo chamber because others are worse, that's your argument?
I have not been shown wrong, under this post I was agressivly told "that tankie means everyone you don't agree with", that "everyone who uses the word tankie is a lib and therefore wrong." Execept you call yourself one, then you get cherished and upvoted) , and it was implied, that I love Nazis if I don't agree with the people here.
Lots of people made lots of claims, but there wasn't anything shown let alone proven.
That's no discussion culture, that's a "have my opinion or get out" culture.
Just admit that you didn't know about the nazis in hungary, and you can still get out without being called a nazi enabler
Corncob moment
Yeah, but there is no real dialogue with most people here. Even if its just a question about what a word means.
Me: tankie comes from tanks They: no it means "commie I don't like" Me:that's not what most people think of when hearing the word, there can be different opinions about using tanks against civilians They: "so you love Nazis?"
That's not what I understand to be an discussion. A discussion would mean listening to the other party and trying to understand. With most people here its either like talking to a wall or talking with someone who's hobby it is building strawman arguments
I'll say it again:
If you don’t send tanks into hungary, the nazis will do pogroms and construct concentration camps there. Not sending tanks is inhumanly cruel.
You're not here for a dialogue, you're here because of a nagging sense of being complicit in something monstrous that compels you to justify your shallow beliefs and corrosive way of life by spewing half-digested propaganda at people discussing the problem.
Ahaha I wish you could read this from my perspective. You guys are so funny desperately trying to prove I'm a fascist/lib/nazi.
All the baseless assumptions you need to make to keep your blissfully "I'm the hero and everyone else is dumb" mindset.
Its just comedy gold
Would you send tanks?
What is your opinion on the standing rock protests and the Kentucky state massacre
Also the 1956 Hungarian coup attempt that the epithet "tankies" comes from was literally full of nazis lmao
The nazis aren't our people.
And everyone who don't likes Stalin is a Nazi
/kappa
The uprising in hungary was a nazi uprising, with pogroms.
There's a really great graphic novel called 'Berlin' that goes into how the Nazis came to be, how the communists were the ones that organized worker strikes to stop railroads to death camps etc. I don't think our meme warfare on the net will change anything but if your looking for a fun read checkit. Is there anything you would recommend for me? I probably I'll read it. I'm a reader.
Oh i totaly agree that communists were often the strongest force against fascists. Don't have to like Stalin to be a communist nor to be antifascist though
That's correct, specifically a state that uses tanks against its people in revolt.
However, people on Reddit (and on Lemmy now) basically use it to refer to any leftist they have a disagreement with.
Well saying tankies support using tanks against civilians gets you down voted on lemmygrad.
No tankies here though, all just libs propaganda
/kappa
So you want the nazis to murder everyone in hungary?