404
Israel cracks down on internal critics of its Gaza war
(www.972mag.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
404 points (100.0% liked)
World News
39004 readers
2673 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Is anyone suggesting Israel should ignore outright calls for violence against Israel by people in Israel? Because as far as I can tell that's not a thing that's happening, so I'm not sure why you're making such a big deal of saying it shouldn't be tolerated.
It is a thing that's happening.
I don't have an Englrsh source, but here is an article about some of students in Haifa university that expressed support and cheered on the October 7th attack. They were suspended from the university.
Keep in mind they did this even before the Israeli army responded in any way and did anything in Gaza.
Cheering on the terrorist attach in October 7th that killed thousands of innocents is a call for violence against Israel.
That article isn't very specific about how exactly they "expressed support" so it's really hard to say if they were expressing a gross political view or actively inciting violence. I certainly don't think saying "I support Hamas" should be illegal any more illegal than saying "I support Russia" or even "I support Israel", but it crosses a line if they tell people to commit acts of terrorism or give material support to Hamas.
I suspect they were removed based on a violation of a student code of conduct, which I think is the right way to deal with high-profile assholes at universities, just as employment agreements are an appropriate way for employers to deal with conduct that's obnoxious but not illegal.
At any rate, I'm certain Israel already has laws against incitement to violence that were written at a time when people were a bit more level headed. I can't see an attempt to further criminalize speech as anything but an attempt to stifle political speech that specifically does not incite violence.
First of all, I'm an Israeli, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, and I'll try to be as unbiased as I can. Hamas, as opposed to Russia (I don't say Israel because a lot will disagree), is an internationaly recognized terrorist group, which was elected* by the people of Gaza after Israel pulled all civilians and military from the Gaza strip, Hamas has made it very clear that their sole mission was to eradicate all the jews (not Israelis or zionists) from Palestine (and I'm not sure about that - also the world). So an Israeli supporting Hamas would be very problematic, Imagine an american supporting Al qaeda right after 9/11. And I just want to emphasize, supporting Hamas is not necessarily supporting Palestine and vice versa, myself I think that any hamas operative deserve to die, but I really hope and dream for the day that the Palestinians would be our peaceful neighbours. *elected technically, as they drove fatah, their main competitor and more moderate towards israel.
I think we may just have a different idea of what counts as incitement. I'm an American and I can tell you that openly expressing support for Al Qaeda would have made you very, very unpopular here, but it would not be illegal. There are cases where I think the American version of free speech goes too far (in that it protects things like dangerous misinformation and foreign propaganda), but I don't think this is one of those cases. The social consequences of supporting terrorists are already harsh enough to keep those views mostly suppressed. People can, of course, find like-minded people and express their opinions in private without fear, but even then, if the conversation goes beyond expressing opinions and moves on to making plans to commit a crime, that's considered a conspiracy, which is illegal. We have counter-terrorism units that actively try to infiltrate extremist groups specifically so they can shut down conspiracies.
I don't think Israel (or any country) should allow speech that directly puts anyone in danger, but given the right-wing nature of Israel's government and the tendency of right-wing governments in general to suppress speech they disapprove of, I strongly suspect that any new law will inevitably be used to suppress legitimate criticism of the government.
I try to keep my ideas and opinions out of this conversation to keep it unbiased, but the reality I see, living in Israel my whole life is that support for a terrorist organization is directly related to terrorist activity, for example we've seen it in 95 when support for a radical right wing Jewish terrorist group quickly ended in the assassination of the prime minister Itzhak Rabin, and Hezbolla supporters are easily recruited by Hezbolla to report where Hezbolla missile hits so Hezbolla can correct they're aiming. As much as I understand,just supporting hamas' actions, as vile and horrible as it is is free speech, but the road from there to actively take action in aiding Hamas is extremely short.
I'm prepared to accept that things are different in Israel for a reason. Especially because my opinion on that topic makes even less difference than my opinions on American politics.