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fair share?
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this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2023
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Lefty Memes
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Are other people paying taxes described as "ripping" away their ownership in "x"? What a bizarre framing. Also, Bezos owns less than 10% of Amazon, so he's already given away ownership of the company. He has assets, and they should be taxed
How does Amazon exist? How do they continue to operate? They run on the Internet created by the US government, they deliver packages by flying through US airspace, and driving on roads paved by several levels of government. Their factories don't burn down because of municipal fire departments, and aren't burglarized because of municipal police departments. Why shouldn't they pay for those things, which they make much more use of than you or I?
Others aren't using taxes on wealth though. Should the middle class be taxed on the amount in their retirement funds also? Or the amount in their bank accounts?
10% of Amazon is still a lot, it's still a lot of power.
You think Amazon doesn't pay for any of that? They pay for their use of such things like we all do. They do get some discounts thanks to scale, but they are paying way more than you or me.
The problem is that they are all employing tax avoidance schemes. Corporations like Amazon will spin off their IP to a separate off-shore corporation. Then they'll pay that corporation for the use of their IP. That reduces Amazon's profit to near zero, meaning they're not paying taxes. The off shore corporation doesn't pay taxes either.
People like Bezos won't take salaries, because they're taxed. Instead they'll take stock. Then they'll take loans against that stock, so they don't pay taxes. They just roll that loan into another loan and continue to live off of it, never paying taxes because they have no "income".
So yes, their wealth should be taxed. Otherwise the richest among us pay next to nothing and yet benefit the most from what our taxes buy. If we weren't adequately capturing taxes from the middle class, then sure, but that's not the case.
Amazon does invest most of their profits back into the business, that is why they were operating with basically no profit. They still paid plenty of taxes though, like payroll taxes, that aren't based on profit.
Then apply income tax or something on loans against stock over a certain amount, but I'm guessing that isn't enough for you? I'm guessing like everyone else here the only solution is to tax them so much they aren't a billionaire anymore, forcefully taking their company away from them in the process.
I'm fine with stopping new tax exemptions, but the ones we already gave were just have to live with. It's not right to ask for it all back.
Yes, it is reinvestment, new ideas aren't free, they cost startup money, it costs money to develop new products and ideas, it's literally reinvestment of profits back into the company.
And? His wealth is tied directly to your much Amazon is worth, and it's worth more of it is successful in reinvesting into itself
It was given and received, there are no take backs. If you want to complain, complain to the ones who allowed it in the first place.
Where does the law say we can take it all away and require back pay when the other party didn't break any rules?
This doesn't happen with financial assets though, at least not that I've heard of. Can you name an example of " we are going to give you a break on these taxes or fees" then that turns into "you did nothing wrong, but we are going to want those 20 years of unpaid taxes/fees that we told you that you didn't need to pay, we changed our minds".
Were you not suggesting we require all the tax breaks over the last however many years be paid back in full? If not I just have been mixing you up with one of the other dozens of far left crazies I've been chatting with.
If you just want to repeal tax breaks that didn't have a guaranteed life that hasn't been reached yet, then that's fine I would probably agree to it depending on the side effects it might cause the middle and lower classes.
You realize your ideas that are also being suggested by most people here are radical, right? Radical left is a thing, and this place is overflowing with it.
It's one thing to suggest doing something about the cuts, but most here don't think that's nearly enough, proposing literal theft and preventing movement outside the country. I would argue it's just as insane here as it is in far right circles, just a different kind of insane.
Radical according to basically the whole country of the USA.
I mean we are talking about a US issue, so yeah it does matter what the US thinks on US issues, and it really doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks.
There aren't many countries out there who don't have a history of that stuff, I don't see why the issues of the past matter at all in this scenario.
It is radical though, especially given the context.
Nobody is actually suggesting income tax brackets here, they are suggesting taxing loans and taxing wealth. The things being suggested here have never been done, and yes they are radical because nobody had been crazy enough to implement these ideas ever in the whole history of the US.
Most of the wealth these billionaires have is ownership in their own companies, to take away that ownership because it's worth too much according to the stock market is insane
Why do you think stock has value? It's because it's a piece of ownership of the company. Yes it's a way for the company to get some capital, but it's also the way for private company owners to cash in on their company being successful.
Why is being paid in ownership insane? It's directly tied to the performance of the company, if the company does well the stock does well, and it's incentive to drive the company in the right direction to reward employees of all levels with stock.
It's insane to tax this ownership, it's not worth the amount it looks like. If an owner had to sell their stock, the stock value would plummet not only because of the huge uptick in supply of stock available to trade, but because the person running the company now has little to no stake in the success of the company.
You know who this also screws over? All the middle class people trying to retire on their stock values going up. You tax wealth, stock values will plummet, and there goes the middle class retirement, no thanks!
Of course I know what hedge funds are, and that people manage them. It's all about actively buying and selling stocks, bonds, and options.
You can call it a terrible retirement vehicle if you want, but it's literally how the middle class is able to retire. From 401k, to Roth IRA, to other much every other retirement account available to the middle class, it's based on stocks, and it's worked well for a ton of people.
It only bankrupts idiots like those on /r/wallstreetbets or those who put all their money into one stock. Yes the market may go down, and it may go down a lot, but that's not going to make you bankrupt unless you make extremely dumb choices.
Luckily most retirement plans come with a target date fund, which is an easy way to diversify and get basically guaranteed gains.
Also, it's the only retirement the middle class has, so you can't destroy it.
I know, it's awful that people want rich people and rich corporations to pay their fair share of the tax burden. If they can't pay their fair share and keep ungodly amounts of wealth, while people are homeless and children are starving, while shit, I guess they just shouldn't have to pay taxes then. What if they had to sell some stock...ohh, the humanity! Will the horrors never cease! You sound like an absolute clown.
What is so bad about investing money back into yourself, it's exactly what non profits are built around doing.
What is their fair share? Your rant to take away all their profits even if they make none? Stop job growth in the company by not allowing them to invest in new products or ideas?
Why should owners be forced to sell their business just because it's successful? Why should we punish success? Stock isn't just some made up currency, it's literally proof of ownership in a company, it's voting power, it's not someone we should be forcing owners to give up.